Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

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Woodserson
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Woodserson » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:30 pm

Musk Ox wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:49 am


The Gamme is for CRUSHING MILES and DOING QUICK STEP TURNS ON WINDY TRAILS and TRYING TO TURN IT LIKE IT SAYS YOU CAN ON THE WEBSITE BUT FALLING OVER A LOT and FUCKING CRUSHING MILES and DOING OVERNIGHTS IN CABINS and I DON'T MIND IT'S PROBABLY MY TURN FOR THE PULK WHO CARES
This is pretty much the most accurate description of the Gamme I have ever read. I feel you. Inside.

We should ski together.

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Crayefish
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Crayefish » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:48 am

lilcliffy wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:54 pm
I do not care- at all- for Asnes' portrait topsheets-
The first-gen Gamme 54 topsheet is tolerable- almost cool with the portrait-expedition artwork-
the current Gamme 54 BC portrait topsheet is like a fashion magazine cover- not a fan.

While I get- and appreciate- naming skis after ski heroes/heriones/etc.- the portriate topsheet gets old- fast.
Agree... really don't like the designs that much, especially coming from my cool yellow/black skis. But, nothing a few stickers or a lick of paint wouldn't solve ;)

Thanks again for the excellent explanations. Would I be right in summarising with the following, given that I'll likely not be telemark turning, nor following tracks if I can help it, nor doing much 'fun downhill' (as will have a heavy pulk connected to the back of me):

I should choose the Amundsen if:
- I value efficency on the flats above all else; more important for a big Greenland crossing than 2-3 week tours in Scandinavia

I should choose the Gamme if:
- I want to deal with the widest possible range of snow conditions that I might encounter on an expedition (e.g. deep powder, crust or hardpack etc)

Based on the above (if I'm correct), the Gamme would suit me better in the short term, as I'll be doing more 'local' Scandi/Iceland stuff, rather than huge Greenland crossings, which would be some years away
I am thinking that there is some refrozen crap and rubble on the Arctic ice cap that even a Mammoth wouldn't be able to carve through...
True... but I won't be hitting the ice cap for some time I think. :)

Would NNN-BC Magnum be a sensible binding, given my big feet and no requirement for tracks?





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lilcliffy
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
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Occupation: Forestry Professional
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:34 pm

@Crayefish
I would add to your summary of the Amundsen vs Gamme above that the main reason to choose the Gamme over the Amundsen has to do with terrain- the Gamme being the expedition ski for hilly terrain from my perspective. The Gamme is still excellent on the flats- excellent- just not likely as efficient a pure XC ski as the Amundsen.

With no personal experience with the Amundsen- I still get the impression from tests/comparisons of actual Amundsen skiers- that the Amundsen might be even stiffer and more stable (if that it possible) than the Gamme- making the load/weight-bearing capacity of the Amundesn higher.

One cannot have everything- one cannot make the Gamme more manageable and turnable on hills while maintaining the legendary load-bearing capacity of the Amundsen ski...

I do want an Amundsen at some point- but only for multi-day tours on frozen lakes and rivers- pulling a pulk. I would get a long Amundsen and keep it on gentle terrain.

For distance-focused lightening turs here in my local hills and forests- the Gamme 54 is my top pick (the E99 Tour Xtralite is a close second if the snow is not too deep or crusty).

I have taken my Gamme 54 on overnight lake-river tours- pulling a pulk- they were excellent.
The Amundsen would be a niche ski for me.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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Ullr
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Ullr » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:49 pm

I pull a pulk almost every time I am skiing. I am 190cm / 95 kilos, almost like you. I carry equipment, food, water and children in my pulk. If you choose Åsnes skis, get some (as recommended in this thread) with a stiff camber. When pulling a pulk I use my short skins 80 percent of the time. On my weak cambered Ingstads it is nice uphill, but almost dangerous downhill, as the friction the skins make is very uncontrollable. I imagine this is better with a stiffer camber as it can better contain the skins downhill.

I have crossed Hardangervidda two times from north to south. The conditions here are usually hard, windpacked snow. Narrow, stiff skies are best as they require less force to put on an edge to bite into the ice on the many traverses. Rocker will not be nice in these conditions.

I use Fjellpulken, an old Norwegian design pulk. This is good for downhill as you can lean on the handles to stabilize yourself downhill. This pulk-leaning and plow-style turning and breaking are effective techniques that don’t require wide skis with heavy sidecut.





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Crayefish
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Crayefish » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:40 am

Thanks for a very helpful reply Ullr! Very handy, especially given your similar size/weight and trip types. As my pulk as pretty stiff bars, I guess I could do the same with the leaning... will give it a go next time.

The Ingstads are wider, more downhill orientated skis right? I know they've got some heavy rocker for a BC ski.

By the way everyone, as some of you were asking about my trip; the first part is now up on my website, if you're interested.

https://the-gentleman-explorer.com/2021 ... on-part-1/





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fisheater
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by fisheater » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:58 am

Hello Crayefish,
I just read the first chapter of your Sarek adventure. Are you aware that the Finns ski on very long skis for such deep snow conditions? You can see them on Varuste.com.
I really enjoy your lack of complete expertise, (you’re young and strong, and it builds character) however as I have no expertise it is quite interesting to read.
Also there have been posts of typical NNN-BC boots used oversized 2-3 sizes, with an Intuition liner (closed cell foam). I think that may eliminate a required vapor barrier. Regardless of the VP, you would have a warm, reasonably light, boot.
I look forward to your next chapter. I hope you warm up the batteries as I’m really hoping to see photos of the Taiga!
Cheers,
Bob





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Crayefish
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Crayefish » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:32 am

Hi fellow fishy :D

Thanks for reading my post! Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I knew my skis and boots were totally unsuitable for this sort of trip (its designed for going up and down in powder, afterall), but after additional costs of the pulk and InReach etc, I thought I'd wait for the next trip before spanking a tonne of money on new skis and boots. In retrospect, I probably should have just laid down the cash, haha, but one lives and learns. And indeed... was character building and will make me REALLY appreciate some nordic skis/boots! :)

Yeah, I was considering Alfa Polar APS with those exact liners, pending fit. But I found the plastic bags on the feet worked very well and were no real faff. But I've already bought the vapour barrier for my sleeping bag as it turns out I definitely need that below -20C!





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Ullr
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Ullr » Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:02 pm

Crayefish wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:40 am
Thanks for a very helpful reply Ullr! Very handy, especially given your similar size/weight and trip types. As my pulk as pretty stiff bars, I guess I could do the same with the leaning... will give it a go next time.

The Ingstads are wider, more downhill orientated skis right? I know they've got some heavy rocker for a BC ski.

By the way everyone, as some of you were asking about my trip; the first part is now up on my website, if you're interested.

https://the-gentleman-explorer.com/2021 ... on-part-1/
Very nice story! Good read. You are much tougher than me and it humbles me to give you any advice.

Yes, holding and leaning on the pulk bars downhill is good and does two things: It stabilizes you and prevents you from falling, but it also prevents the jerky movement back and forth from the pulk which might easily tip you over.

The Ingstads are wider skis, yes, but not as wide as yours. My rule of thumb is shorter, wider skis for the forest and lowlands, longer and narrower (and stiffer) skis for the mountain. My Ingstads are an older model with less rocker (I think), but on icy hard tracks they hav no direction and are hard to walk efficiently with.

I would recommend that you look into stiff leather boots. I think Crispi Bre are one you should consider checking out. They mould to your feet after breaking in. Comfortable shoes are a must on multi day trips. To prevent blister on my heel I use a thin womans nylon sock inside my wool socks. This is an old Norwegian trick. I also use sports tape to tape a vertical strip from my acilles tendon over my heel and down under my foot. This acts as an extra layer of skin and prevents you from getting blisters.

I always wear what we call nickers in Norwegian. This is short pants that reaches over my knees. With them I wear wool socks that reaches over my knees. Tis is a very classic and useful way to dress as you can control the heat easily: When warm, I roll down my socks. When cold I use one or two sets of long underwear. When windy or deep snow, I use kneehigh boot gaiters. Boots with gaiters included will limit their use to only include extreme conditions and make the hard to keep in your sleeping bag for drying/heating. My knickers hav big sidepockets. I use one for my short skins and the other for the days kickwax (todays color plus one warmer and one colder)

Always keep your smelly wool socks and shoes inside your sleeping bag! This will dry them in the cold. Wool sock doesn’t smell bad by the way. At least not for a while…

Nickers example: https://fjellkompaniet.no/produkt/polho ... yQQAvD_BwE

Gaiters example: https://www.fjellsport.no/lillsport-gai ... -category1

Socks: https://fjellkompaniet.no/produkt/nikkersstromper/

Stay far away from Gore Tex and alike, as it wil make you sweaty and cold very fast.





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bgregoire
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Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by bgregoire » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:55 pm

Crayefish wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:32 am
Hi fellow fishy :D

Thanks for reading my post! Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I knew my skis and boots were totally unsuitable for this sort of trip (its designed for going up and down in powder, afterall), but after additional costs of the pulk and InReach etc, I thought I'd wait for the next trip before spanking a tonne of money on new skis and boots. In retrospect, I probably should have just laid down the cash, haha, but one lives and learns. And indeed... was character building and will make me REALLY appreciate some nordic skis/boots! :)

Yeah, I was considering Alfa Polar APS with those exact liners, pending fit. But I found the plastic bags on the feet worked very well and were no real faff. But I've already bought the vapour barrier for my sleeping bag as it turns out I definitely need that below -20C!
Hey Craye, nice to read of your adventures. I've done something similar I while ago already. Awesome stuff. We did ski through Sarek on that trip. Would be happy to talk gear choice and what not if ever you are working on a sequel!
https://living-laponia.tumblr.com/

I have to say, I had a hard time finding clean camp fuel (we call if Naphta gas in Canada). Turns out you have to know where to look. They sell that stuff in tha GAS STATION! We got several 4L plastics jugs of the stuff for our trip.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM





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Crayefish
Posts: 12
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Ski style: Downhill and Expedition
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Website: https://the-gentleman-explorer.com/

Re: Asnes Ski Choice for Pulk Expeditions

Post by Crayefish » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:56 am

Ullr wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:02 pm
Very nice story! Good read. You are much tougher than me and it humbles me to give you any advice.
Ha, don't be silly. Glad you enjoyed it though.
Ullr wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:02 pm
I would recommend that you look into stiff leather boots. I think Crispi Bre are one you should consider checking out. They mould to your feet after breaking in. Comfortable shoes are a must on multi day trips. To prevent blister on my heel I use a thin womans nylon sock inside my wool socks. This is an old Norwegian trick. I also use sports tape to tape a vertical strip from my acilles tendon over my heel and down under my foot. This acts as an extra layer of skin and prevents you from getting blisters.
Actually the one guy I met out there also talked about doing the heel strip preventatively, when he was in the military. Good idea of course, though in softer boots than my plastics, my feet are 'normally' fine. Will look up those crispi boots.
Ullr wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:02 pm
I always wear what we call nickers in Norwegian. This is short pants that reaches over my knees. With them I wear wool socks that reaches over my knees. Tis is a very classic and useful way to dress as you can control the heat easily: When warm, I roll down my socks. When cold I use one or two sets of long underwear. When windy or deep snow, I use kneehigh boot gaiters. Boots with gaiters included will limit their use to only include extreme conditions and make the hard to keep in your sleeping bag for drying/heating.

Stay far away from Gore Tex and alike, as it wil make you sweaty and cold very fast.
Interesting system! For my legs I normally need very little insulation anyway; so even in the coldest temps just a 200 merino base and thin uninsulated shell worked well for me (I also had a pair of insulated over trousers for standing around gazing at the northern lights at night). I even had no issues with my bibs being goretex (only worn instead of my softshells due to the bib part being handy).

Its my upper body that sweats a lot and causes me issues and I did indeed find, as you say, that my usual mountaineering approach of fleece layers and a hardshell was not suitable from the hardshell (eVent) point of view. Wasnt so windy, so that helped as didn't need my jacket mostly, but for future I do want a wind breaker or softshell if it gets blowy. At -25 even my merino and thin fleece were soaked in sweat, and drying these (and my gloves) helped in hurting my sleeping bag without the vapour barrier. I changed my approach later in the trip and it worked much better.

Historically, when mountaineering, I always got on well with integral gaitored boots, for both my double and single boots. If needed, can pop the inner boots (if doubles) in the bag to pre warm when its very cold, but I don't mind cold boots so long as they're properly dry. Even the plastic ski boots were fine from that perspective... but getting into them each morning was a hell of a challenge due to their inherent stiffness!

Trying to avoid having 2 pairs of boots for warm/cold conditions is a bit of an issue I admit, but I am leaning towards aiming for the more extreme conditions and boots, then just putting up with some slightly sweater feet on warm days. Though, with the plastic bags between socks, it kept my boots sweat-free.
Ullr wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:02 pm
Always keep your smelly wool socks and shoes inside your sleeping bag! This will dry them in the cold. Wool sock doesn’t smell bad by the way. At least not for a while…
I went for very thin liners (i had either merino or synthetic to choose) and these dried easy enough in my bag, though even with wool my feet get pretty diabolical after a few days! My outers (outside of the plastic bags) were just normal skiing socks, but will definitely look at some proper wool socks for the future, depending on what boot system I go for. Do you find that brand you linked to pretty durable?

Thanks for all the advice.





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