Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

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Mtlsam
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:38 pm
Location: Montréal
Ski style: Trail touring
Favorite Skis: Fischer E99

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by Mtlsam » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:48 pm

[/quote]

From what you describe, I think that getting a bit wider steel edged ski would be a great step in controlling descents. An important question is if you want to use this ski also in groomed trails?

//Rickard//
[/quote]


I'm having my suspicions confirmed in thinking that the skinny skis were not making my skiing easier. I would keep what I have for groomed trails and be open to something wider than would fit in the grooves for this new pair.

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greatgt
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by greatgt » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:06 pm

What Bgregoire said....Try the Fischer e99's....Keep the Rottafella Super Telemark binding and a light leather boot....Find some powder....forget about falling....but when you do.....learn to control it....Crashes are like learning to stop on your skis...If not falling will get the job done...Get up continue...Remember fantastical crashes....Laughing is very good...TM





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Musk Ox
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:53 am
Location: North
Ski style: Bad
Favorite Skis: I am a circumpolar mammal
Favorite boots: Hooves
Occupation: Eating lichen, walking about

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by Musk Ox » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

lowangle al wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:45 pm
Crashing correctly is one of the first things to learn. Wear it as a badge of honor.(hopefully not red) If you do it enough you eventually become a master of the "great save." Have you had any yet?

I haven't crashed with plastic boots in more then a few years, but every time out with leather I have a close call. But then I'm not trying not to fall, I like to challenge myself on the down.
Oh, I’m making great advances in the outcomes of productive flailing every day, Al! ha ha!

For what I do and where I go, plastic would be overkill, really. I suspect that it’s kind of the same for our man Sam here, given the gear he’s shown us.

Speaking of which, is that selvedge denim with chain-stitched hems you’re wearing in the first picture, Sam? If that’s Japanese denim, you could probably get a pair of Nansens and some Lundhags boots for the price of two pairs of those.





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Mtlsam
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:38 pm
Location: Montréal
Ski style: Trail touring
Favorite Skis: Fischer E99

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by Mtlsam » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:33 pm

Musk Ox wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm
lowangle al wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:45 pm
Crashing correctly is one of the first things to learn. Wear it as a badge of honor.(hopefully not red) If you do it enough you eventually become a master of the "great save." Have you had any yet?

I haven't crashed with plastic boots in more then a few years, but every time out with leather I have a close call. But then I'm not trying not to fall, I like to challenge myself on the down.
Oh, I’m making great advances in the outcomes of productive flailing every day, Al! ha ha!

For what I do and where I go, plastic would be overkill, really. I suspect that it’s kind of the same for our man Sam here, given the gear he’s shown us.

Speaking of which, is that selvedge denim with chain-stitched hems you’re wearing in the first picture, Sam? If that’s Japanese denim, you could probably get a pair of Nansens and some Lundhags boots for the price of two pairs of those.
Not only are you guys informative, but funny and in this case very observant! I'm a big selvedge denim fan. If only I could find a deal for skis like I've found for my jeans I'd be golden! I'm willing to role the dice on the fit of my pants, but I think I'll have to ski shop early in the season to make sure I get the right fit.





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dhdaines
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Sainte-Adèle
Ski style: BCXC/XCD, skate, gradually improving telemark
Favorite Skis: E99, FT62, Peltonen Zenith, anything I found in the trash or got for free
Favorite boots: Alpina Wyoming, Karhu Descent

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by dhdaines » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:14 pm

Mtlsam wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:30 pm
Thanks to both of you for weighing in! Everything is sold out these days anyway, so I've got time to really digest all this info.

The trails are in St-Donat, I've been exploring the area around
Le Grand R.

http://www.saint-donat.ca/files/Carte_H ... nat(1).pdf
St-Donat is a mixed bag as many of the trails are quite wide and shared with snowshoes, while some are very classic Laurentian trails where somebody nailed some tin can lids to the trees and said "ski here". I seem to remember the trails around the Grand R being fairly nice and not too hard. Grand Pimbina and Mont Sourire are nice and fairly gentle too.

Your main problem is the classic boots and bindings, which aren't stiff or supportive enough to allow you to brake, be it by snowplowing, side-sliding, or taking a dive "off to the side" in the deep snow. Metal edges are secondary but nice to have when the snow is hard-packed or icy. A minimal upgrade for you would be a pair of skate or "combi" boots, or even the Rossignol X-5 which is an "off-track" boot but with an "on-track" NNN sole. Most people skiing these trails are using NNN-BC or 75mm with backcountry XC boots, plastic is overkill. Fischer E99 or T78 are very good skis for this area.

Feeling like your skis are too long to herringbone is a thing that happens even on shorter skis, it generally means the pitch is too steep and you need to side-step it instead. In my opinion though, 75% of the time, herringboning is a sign that you have bad wax or bad waxless skis (i.e. most of them).





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Eärendil
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:52 am
Location: Sweden
Ski style: Ski touring
Favorite Skis: Fischer E99
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by Eärendil » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:30 pm

dhdaines wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:14 pm
Mtlsam wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:30 pm
Thanks to both of you for weighing in! Everything is sold out these days anyway, so I've got time to really digest all this info.

The trails are in St-Donat, I've been exploring the area around
Le Grand R.

http://www.saint-donat.ca/files/Carte_H ... nat(1).pdf

Your main problem is the classic boots and bindings, which aren't stiff or supportive enough to allow you to brake, be it by snowplowing, side-sliding, or taking a dive "off to the side" in the deep snow. Metal edges are secondary but nice to have when the snow is hard-packed or icy.
People try hard though:



:mrgreen:





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Mtlsam
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:38 pm
Location: Montréal
Ski style: Trail touring
Favorite Skis: Fischer E99

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by Mtlsam » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:34 pm

dhdaines wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:14 pm
Mtlsam wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:30 pm
Thanks to both of you for weighing in! Everything is sold out these days anyway, so I've got time to really digest all this info.

The trails are in St-Donat, I've been exploring the area around
Le Grand R.

http://www.saint-donat.ca/files/Carte_H ... nat(1).pdf
St-Donat is a mixed bag as many of the trails are quite wide and shared with snowshoes, while some are very classic Laurentian trails where somebody nailed some tin can lids to the trees and said "ski here". I seem to remember the trails around the Grand R being fairly nice and not too hard. Grand Pimbina and Mont Sourire are nice and fairly gentle too.

Your main problem is the classic boots and bindings, which aren't stiff or supportive enough to allow you to brake, be it by snowplowing, side-sliding, or taking a dive "off to the side" in the deep snow. Metal edges are secondary but nice to have when the snow is hard-packed or icy. A minimal upgrade for you would be a pair of skate or "combi" boots, or even the Rossignol X-5 which is an "off-track" boot but with an "on-track" NNN sole. Most people skiing these trails are using NNN-BC or 75mm with backcountry XC boots, plastic is overkill. Fischer E99 or T78 are very good skis for this area.

Feeling like your skis are too long to herringbone is a thing that happens even on shorter skis, it generally means the pitch is too steep and you need to side-step it instead. In my opinion though, 75% of the time, herringboning is a sign that you have bad wax or bad waxless skis (i.e. most of them).
Cool to get feedback from someone who has been to the area! In your experience is it preferable to be on the heavy side for a given ski length, or light for a longer size. I seem to be right around the transition point for most charts I see.





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dhdaines
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Sainte-Adèle
Ski style: BCXC/XCD, skate, gradually improving telemark
Favorite Skis: E99, FT62, Peltonen Zenith, anything I found in the trash or got for free
Favorite boots: Alpina Wyoming, Karhu Descent

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by dhdaines » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:52 pm

Mtlsam wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:34 pm
Cool to get feedback from someone who has been to the area! In your experience is it preferable to be on the heavy side for a given ski length, or light for a longer size. I seem to be right around the transition point for most charts I see.
I prefer to be "heavy" for my skis but opinions differ on this subject! I do think that shorter skis are better for the Laurentians though - the snow is hard-packed and often icy, the hills are short and often very steep, the trails are narrow and turn sharply and frequently, and the only flat parts are when crossing lakes. So glide is not very important (you can see this in ski preparation instructions from old-timers like these that have you sand and apply base binder and grip wax on the entire base: https://clubmontagnecanadien.qc.ca/cons ... i-nordique)

If you go too short then you will of course lose your wax quickly on abrasive snow (or wear out your scale pattern prematurely).





User avatar
Mtlsam
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:38 pm
Location: Montréal
Ski style: Trail touring
Favorite Skis: Fischer E99

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by Mtlsam » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:06 pm

dhdaines wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:52 pm
Mtlsam wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:34 pm
Cool to get feedback from someone who has been to the area! In your experience is it preferable to be on the heavy side for a given ski length, or light for a longer size. I seem to be right around the transition point for most charts I see.
I prefer to be "heavy" for my skis but opinions differ on this subject! I do think that shorter skis are better for the Laurentians though - the snow is hard-packed and often icy, the hills are short and often very steep, the trails are narrow and turn sharply and frequently, and the only flat parts are when crossing lakes. So glide is not very important (you can see this in ski preparation instructions from old-timers like these that have you sand and apply base binder and grip wax on the entire base: https://clubmontagnecanadien.qc.ca/cons ... i-nordique)

If you go too short then you will of course lose your wax quickly on abrasive snow (or wear out your scale pattern prematurely).
I can imagine that you really would be "walking" up some step slopes with that style a waxing, interesting link. I will explore it more.





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bgregoire
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99 & Boundless (98), Åsnes Ingstad, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar

Re: Equipment upgrade from skinny skis

Post by bgregoire » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:37 pm

dhdaines wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:52 pm
I prefer to be "heavy" for my skis but opinions differ on this subject! I do think that shorter skis are better for the Laurentians though - the snow is hard-packed and often icy, the hills are short and often very steep, the trails are narrow and turn sharply and frequently, and the only flat parts are when crossing lakes. So glide is not very important (you can see this in ski preparation instructions from old-timers like these that have you sand and apply base binder and grip wax on the entire base: https://clubmontagnecanadien.qc.ca/cons ... i-nordique)
@dhdaines, thanks for the link to that "old-school" advice. I'm going to share it on a Wiki post we have about waxing.

I find the advice about using extra long pole quite peculiar. Can you elaborate on that?

@Mtlsam, I think Jacques Powels' ski, binding and boot type quite appropriate for you needs albeit a little dated. You will have a hard time finding new full-leather norwegian stich boots nowadays.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM





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