Dumb wax question

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lilcliffy
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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:25 pm

ddg wrote:Related question... What is a decent set of glide waxes for waxless skis? Is the "SWIX FLUORINATED GLIDE WAX" in violet, red, blue a good choice. I'm looking for a low hassle procedure. :| What do you do between waxes - just give a good brush with a fine nylon brush? Or is something cheaper like this just as good.
I am assuming that the "swix fluorinated glide wax" you are speaking of is the liquid glide wax with the sponge applicator? I will come back to that stuff.

1) I highly advise hot-waxing your tips/tails with glide wax. I do it 1-2 times per season- and then a final time for off-season storage. This is inexpensive, offers the best possible glide performance, and will prolong the life of your ski bases.

2) The grip wax kit you linked on the MEC is an excellent example of a simple grip wax system. You really don't need anything else in the backcountry- especially if you have a waxable ski, and then a waxless ski for warmer snow (i.e. having both skis may avoid the need for using klister).

3) the liquid glide waxes you mention work very well with waxless skis (especially that have hot-waxed tips/tails ;) ) in warm, sticky snow. You need to bring your skis up to room temperature; apply the liquid glide wax to the entire base (including traction scales); let it dry; and then cork it into the entire base. This will keep wet sticky snow from sticking to your bases/scales. However; be prepared to have to apply this stuff before every long-distance (more than 20kms) ski. Word of caution- use a base cleaner to remove all traces of the liquid glide wax before hot-waxing. The liquid glide wax residue will prevent the hot wax from penetrating into the base. As an aside- I have never used the "florinated" variety. It is more expensive then the regular stuff...been meaning to research it...am a bit anxious that it might negatively effect hot-waxing...no idea...

4) You will need climbing skins if you are going to climb very steep slopes (BTW- kick wax alone will allow you to climb a steeper slope than traction scales). If you are going to use kick wax make sure you use a skin that is compatible with it.

Hope I am helping you!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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ddg
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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by ddg » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:38 pm

Thanks lilcliffy. I'm a little confused about the hot wax. :? Any that I have seen are temperature specific, usually in some range. Since temps vary quite a bit throughout the season, how does applying it 2-3 times a year fit with that? Or is it a different wax? Could you point me to some at MEC or wherever?

So, sounds like for waxless skis such as BC 125, Annum, S112, Vector BC etc. there is a general hot wax (non-temp related) that should be applied 2-3 times a year, on the tip and tail only. Mostly for protection (I guess no protection for the scales?). Then on a per trip basis apply the temperature specific liquid wax over top of this as well as on the scales. A bit confused about the corking though... samples I've seen just apply it and let it dry at room temp. No corking. I suppose you can't cork the scale part anyway, right?

I'm more inclined to use only the liquid wax for waxless skis since it should be done at almost every outing anyway. This way there is nothing to clean etc. Seems there is some debate over the cleaning thing. :?:
Derrick

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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by MikeK » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:23 pm

ddg - I've been using the apply every outing liquid wax. The results are meh... I'm going to get my ass in gear next season and start waxing for real. I might try that stuff connyro mentioned though, just because I am lazy...

I'd think one would want to stick with the liquid stuff just for the scales though. The problem is it seems to wear off, so if it's really warm and sticky, I can't make it very far before I need to reapply. I found another thing this year and that's hidden puddles underneath fresh snow. Ahh the joys of spring... doesn't seem to matter how much wax you have if you go through liquid water and then onto snow, the skis are going to stick. Early in the season I have much worse issues with hidden streams that are not all the way frozen. Get into one of those on a cold day and it's insta-freeze... no that rub on wax won't save you... I've had to whack my ski against the tree to break off the ice and scrape at it, then reapply some rub on wax (I always carry a tin of it)... it's a pain, but real wilderness skiing doesn't always protect you from where you might ski through some liquid water hiding under nice fresh snow...

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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by 1EyedJack » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:10 pm

ddg,

Here is a link to some solid info on waxing from TOKO, one of the major ski wax companies.
http://www.tokous.com/Manuals/BasicManual.pdf

Not sure if it is covered the article I linked to, but there is some conversation regarding "sintered" ptex bases vs "extruded" bases and glide wax retention.

I use a "universal" wax for the glide. No kick wax on my waxless S98s, as I have some skins for the steeper ascents.
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oldschool
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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by oldschool » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:30 pm

It's definitely worth the effort to put a hard glide wax into the base of the tips and tails - all parts except the grip pocket.
I use SWIX waxes - they make a bunch of glide wax temperatures but honestly for gliding it does not matter a whole lot since most of us are not downhill racers or XC racers. Wax wrong with kick wax on waxable skis and you figure that out fast. For glide wax it is way less critical - I don't ski as much as I'd like but I wind up doing my skis once or at most twice a season - maybe less since I have different pairs and don't ski them all continuously. I like Green - it is a wax for cold conditions and will work fine in warm conditions too. Warmer waxes will be stickier in colder conditions so Green is a good base wax if you live someplace where it is pretty cold at least some of the season. Just drip it on with an iron that you are going to dedicate to waxing and then iron it to distribute and iron in a little, watching the temp. Let harden and scrape off the excess. If you use waxless skis mainly for warmer conditions as I tend to, I might tend to put a blue (slightly warmer) wax into the base. I would never put kick wax up in the front shovel area or tails - it's probably useful for extending the pocket a little sometimes.

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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by oldschool » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:32 pm

Forgot to mention that I put Swix Green into my tele resort ski bases. Works well for me -

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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by Cannatonic » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:25 pm

I'm lazy and have used Swix F4 liquid for years on my waxless skis - this year I waxed them (tips & tails) with a Toko non-Fluorinated Universal temp glide wax - definitely faster. It's better. It lasts for 10+ sessions too. I still put the F4 on the scales.

Waxing's much easier with a good bench system to hold the ski and a real waxing iron. I bought a Swix iron at closeout last year, definitely better than the old beater clothes iron I was using.

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lilcliffy
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Re: Dumb wax question

Post by lilcliffy » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:00 pm

ddg wrote:Thanks lilcliffy. I'm a little confused about the hot wax. :? Any that I have seen are temperature specific, usually in some range. Since temps vary quite a bit throughout the season, how does applying it 2-3 times a year fit with that? Or is it a different wax? Could you point me to some at MEC or wherever?

So, sounds like for waxless skis such as BC 125, Annum, S112, Vector BC etc. there is a general hot wax (non-temp related) that should be applied 2-3 times a year, on the tip and tail only. Mostly for protection (I guess no protection for the scales?). Then on a per trip basis apply the temperature specific liquid wax over top of this as well as on the scales. A bit confused about the corking though... samples I've seen just apply it and let it dry at room temp. No corking. I suppose you can't cork the scale part anyway, right?

I'm more inclined to use only the liquid wax for waxless skis since it should be done at almost every outing anyway. This way there is nothing to clean etc. Seems there is some debate over the cleaning thing. :?:
I most often use "green" (for cold weather) hard glide wax for hot-waxing the tips and tails of all of my skis.

You are correct- just like grip waxing- there is a myriad of waxes to choose from if you wanted to absolutely maximize glide performance. Personally, for my backcountry skiing (although I am somewhat performance obsessed) I force myself not to get too crazy when it comes to waxing. No matter what- hot-waxing tips/tails will not only protect the bases- it will also improve gliding performance.

Let me clarify- if you hot-wax your tips/tails, you would only need the liquid glide wax on waxless traction- when the snow is warm and sticky.

I find that the liquid glide waxes last much, much longer if you cork/polish them into the base. I also do my best to polish in the liquid wax into the traction pocket when the snow is sticky- no idea how effective this is- may just make me feel better.

No matter what- when the snow is sticky- the only things that really works, over distance, is a ski with a waxable base, and the temperature appropriate glide/grip waxes.

If I anticipate that the snow is going to be very sticky, and I have to use waxless skis- I apply the liquid glide wax to the traction scales- and I don't plan on travelling too far (up to 20kms) without having to re-apply it.

In short- IMO applying liquid glide wax on every outing- regardless of the snow/ski context- would be a waste.

I use liquid glide wax as a last resort- and a band-aid treatment.
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lilcliffy
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Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Dumb wax question

Post by lilcliffy » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:03 pm

Cannatonic wrote:this year I waxed them (tips & tails) with a Toko non-Fluorinated Universal temp glide wax - definitely faster. It's better. It lasts for 10+ sessions too.
The universal temperature glide wax is what I am more and more leaning towards as well- then you can use the same wax all season- and for storage!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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