What ski would you use for this???

[JohnSKepler]

Doing a tour this weekend on a course that was used for a local race back in the 70s and 80s. Very cool area in Northern Utah. It actually skirts Peter Sinks, a meteorologically-important location known for being one of the top two or three coldest places in the CONUS. I've ridden this area in the summer on a motorcycle but not on this exact course.

Distance of the tour is about 15 kilometers. Start is at 7,600 feet. End is at 6,200 ft. We had a foot of heavy, dense snow on Wednesday and I don't think there's been any melting up there. Starting temperature should be 15 to 20 degrees, ending between 25 and 30 deg F. Start and end have heavy sun exposure but the rest of the course is in trees and ravines. First mile or so is a snowmobile road. You can see from the profile that the first three miles are 'up' and the last 5 1/2 miles or so are 'down', but it isn't what I'd call steep anywhere. I was hoping for some advice on choice of ski. Note, this is not a race!

I have an Xplore/Alaska, 3-pin/Scarpa T4, or Transit/Scarpa F1 that I can put on a Voile Objective or an FT62. My other choice is the Xplore/Alaska on a Rossi BC80. I have full-length skins I can put on the FT62 and the Objective but I don't think I'll need them.

F1/Objective would give me the best downhill performance and have the benefit of scales. Glides a bit.
T4/FT62 gives me improved kick and glide, good downhill performance, but I'd have to wax or use an Xskin.
BC80 would be super light but doesn't turn for beans and there is significant tree skiing, though not very steep.
Using the Xplore/Alaska with the Objective or FT62 gives me light weight and okay downhill performance.

There are a lot of pros and cons between the various combinations and was wondering how the more experienced tourers might look at this.

[fisheater]

John if it was me I would take the Falketind X, however mine has an ST/cable 75 mm binding. I’m not sure of the performance of the Xplore binding. I’ve heard some say it is as good or better, I’m not a believer yet.
I don’t have an Objective, but my Tindan of similar dimensions does not track well on firm. That is what would push my decision.
Now what I should say about grip and glide for the FT is, Swix blue extra until it gets too warm, than the X-skin. That is excellent advice, but I would have a couple tins of warmer wax with me. If blue gripped early, I’m pretty confident I would be good with wax all day.
YMMV
Hope you have a good tur!

[telerat]

...I’m not sure of the performance of the Xplore binding. ..

As with any binding the support is very dependent on the boot. My Xplore with Alfa Skaget is more supportive than my 75mm with cable and old Asolo Morgedal, and my Alfa Free is approaching Asolo Extreme.

Alpina Alaska XP is a distance oriented boot and felt similar to my old Morgedal, unlike the BC/75mm versions that are higher and more supportive.

[lilcliffy]

...I’m not sure of the performance of the Xplore binding. ..

As with any binding the support is very dependent on the boot. My Xplore with Alfa Skaget is more supportive than my 75mm with cable and old Asolo Morgedal, and my Alfa Free is approaching Asolo Extreme.

[lilcliffy]

@JohnSKepler
Hi John,

So- you can put any of those boots (Alaska XP/T4/F1) on either the Objective BC or the FT62X?

Do you still have a Alfa Free XP boot?

Will the scales of the Objective BC be sufficient grip for near the entire tur? (ie you won't need skins on it?)

Are you comfortable/capable grip-kcik waxing for near the entire tur? Are you able to manage your grip-kick wax so that you barely need skins at all?

You state that it is not steep? Any control points where you will not be comfortable/safe with a Nordic touring boot?

[mca80]

Why would you use plastic boots and an 80 uf ski for a 15km tour with no real steep sections?

[lowangle al]

Why would you use plastic boots and an 80 uf ski for a 15km tour with no real steep sections?

I would use plastic boots for that tour for a few reasons. Number one, my thermomoldable liners in my T4s give me a better fit than my light boots. Next, I like the support of plastic boots, they are easier on my feet. Those reasons are particular to me and my feet but there are also reasons particular to the tour. First there is a 1400 foot drop between where you start and where you end, so gravity is on your side and there will probably be opportunities for doing turns. Next the OP mentions significant tree skiing which will require more control, and add in that like with many tours you don't know how conditions will be. My thinking is that I want to be prepared for the toughest conditions that I may encounter, even if it's a small part of the tour.

I think the best ski for the tour is the Objective ( can't speak to his boot/ binding combo). From my experience the tour he describes shouldn't take much more than three hours travel time, so I don't see the need for extra speed of a lighter set up, unless he needs to catch a bus.

[JohnSKepler]

I wound up taking the FT62 with the Transit binding and F1 boots. If you look at @lowangle al 's assessment the reasons he states are pretty much spot on. Ten miles is a decent distance but not extreme. More downhill than up. Trees. And there turned out to be plenty of steeper downhill. I did go back and forth between the Objective and the FT62 and finally settled on the FT62 for it's kick and glide characteristics as mentioned by @fisheater. Instead of waxing I took along several Xskins which were perfect except for one spot where I needed to put on my full skin. Conditions varied throughout so this made the most sense. And the thermoformed Intuition liners provide the best fit.

Conditions were dang near perfect. Deep snow, much of it recent, with a few days to settle. Here and there were sections with a thin crust which mostly wasn't a problem. Bluebird day. Some snowmobile tracked out ares.

The only place where the FT62 didn't shine was deeper snow with a thin crust. In those situations the Falketinds would easily break through the crust going downhill with the tips carving through. It seemed, however, like that thin crust preferred the ski going strait as opposed to letting it carve an arc. By the last mile my legs were pretty tired and I really struggled to get them to turn and face-planted twice. Blaming weary legs.

There were also a LOT of snowmobile tracks at the beginning and, at one point in the middle, it was a damn highway. It was probably the best day of the season for snowmows and everyone was out. However, while there signs were everywhere, and we could hear them, once we left the parking area we only came across a few. I found it much easier to navigate the tracks in the plastic boots than I could have in any of my Xplore boots. In fact, in the stiff boot/binding they weren't a problem even if they made that section less fun. @lilcliffy, if I had more faith in the Alfa Free I might have gone with those but at 10 miles I'm afraid they'd have given me blisters even with my modifications. I tend to reserve those for 3-4 mile-tour-for-turns in known conditions. Yes, I can mount the FT62 and the Objective with Xplore, 3-Pin, or Transit. (I've 'developed' a standard mounting pattern I'm going to use on any new XC/BC skies for which I'll make a template allowing me to mount pretty much anything.)

I was the only tele skier. The other (4) skiers were in AT bindings on Voile skis of various widths. There was an older Objective. A V6. And two UltraVectors, I think, all significantly wider underfoot than the FT62. One guy had scales. The FT62 blew them all away in kick and glide and anything low angle while the wider skis seemed to offer better control in the steeper downhill sections. There were a few places where the Objective would have been better maybe but they were short. Overall, I think I chose the best set up for conditions and my skill level.

One thing about the Transits, I'm going to put together a slightly less active spring/cable assembly. For the tour we did yesterday, which is similar to what I usually do, only longer, I'd prefer something that felt more like the springs from my Rottefella 3-Pin.

One thing about the F1s. Many have said they do away with the walk mode. I think it's a great walk mode but I may do away with mine. It's bulky and really gets in the way of the heel throw. It's also a bit of a chore to get it fully engaged so I wind up not using it.

One thing about the FT62. With a narrow and wide mohair Xskin you can ski just about anything that isn't frozen without worrying about wax. The Xskins do not do well when it is icy, not so much because they don't grip but the plastic mounts really interfere with your motion. In anything softer they do better and when powdery you don't really notice them at all except you can stride right past scales. They are easy to carry and to change.

[fisheater]

You’re lucky John that you don’t like that activity. I’m hooked like a junkie! I just don’t know if I want a Transit or a Switchback X2 for my Tindan.
1rst world problems!

[JohnSKepler]

You’re lucky John that you don’t like that activity. I’m hooked like a junkie! I just don’t know if I want a Transit or a Switchback X2 for my Tindan.
1rst world problems!

I don’t know that I don’t like it, Bob, I just ‘taught myself’ to Tele with a deeper bend and I just about can’t pull my heel up far enough for it to feel ‘right’. I’m not a heavy lad and I don’t have a long foot. After sitting at the feet of the TT Gurus I like having that ball-of-the-foot-on-the-ski feel. Maybe as I ski that F1 more the bellows will loosen up. Right now I have the spring activity + a stiff bellows!