22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of boots

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Elliott Reid

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22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of boots

Postby Elliott Reid » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:41 pm

Hey Telemark Talk,
First post here. I’m excited to join the community.

Last fall (2014) I bought a new pair of Scarpa T-race boots and 22 Design Axel bindings. I skied ~30 days last winter on this setup. My skiing was a 50/50 split of touring and resort skiing. I really like how the setup skis and tours. No problems or complaints there.

My problem and reason for this post is the Axl bindings chewed up the front sole section of my new boots. From what I can tell, the front of the red base plate on the bindings cut into the rubber near the 3 pin holes and then pushed/cut the rubber forward of the 3 pin holes completely off. The rubber in front of the 3 pins is completely missing, exposing metal that appears to be the foundation of the sole.

My questions are:
1) Has this happened to anyone else? (with T race or other boots)
2) DOES IT MATTER / should I care? I’ve tried but can’t necessarily tell if the missing rubber from the front of my boot is impacting the feel or performance from the boot/binding.
3) Where you able to get your boots replaced? If not, where you able to fix or repair the sole?

Any insight or experience you can share with me would be awesome.

Thanks,
Elliott

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of bo

Postby Dirtbag » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:59 pm

I run Axls and Garmont Kenai boots on my primary setup. No problems yet.

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of bo

Postby twoturn » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:53 am

There is a simple solution to that issue. It stems from trying to pivot off of your toes as if you were in AT boots. Try pressing through the balls of your feet and that will sort that out plus give you more control of your sticks by distributing the forces a bit more evenly . Your style will change a bit as well. You will notice that you are a bit more upright and that you are not in as deep of a lunge. This will place more pressure towards the tip of your lead ski and more pressure towards the tail of your trailing ski.
I hope this helps you out and doesn't confuse you instead. I am curious what your thoughts are and if you experiment with this how your skiing changes.


oh, one more thing, what position is your Axl pin in?

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of bo

Postby twoturn » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:56 am

BTW, I have T-Races. Have been in them since day one 17 years ago and I am on my 8th pair. Have only replaced them because of size issues and softened bellows. I also have a bunch of Axls and many hundreds of days on this combo and don't have any duckbill damage. My buddy skis more AT tour pivot style and his boots are chewed up.
Curious what others have experienced.

Elliott Reid

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of bo

Postby Elliott Reid » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:01 pm

Thanks for the comments from Dirtbag and twoturn.

Twoturn – good insight. I’ve been tele turning for 5 years and can appreciate the subtle and not so subtle differences between turn techniques (good & bad). By no means is every one of my turns made in perfect technique. I’d like to think that the majority of my turns are made in proper technique, but I will definitely try to be more diligent given this new perspective.

Can anyone speak to my current state? The fronts of my boots are chewed up. Imagine taking a knife and cutting a 45-degree triangular slice off the front part of the rubber. Does it matter? Am I losing power or control? Is the boot damage propagating bad technique? Should I try to get this replaced?

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of bo

Postby twoturn » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:43 pm

Maybe trim a bit off. You may get a bit of vertical
Movement which could creat a bit of a rocker launch
effect. Just keep pushing through the balls of you feet
and ski the hell out of them until you can feel noticeable
play while skiing then get soles replaced.
Any pics to share of them?

Elliott Reid

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of bo

Postby Elliott Reid » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:02 pm

I'm heading out for the weekend and won't be able to take of pic of the damage until Sunday night. I'll make sure to get a few pics and share them asap.

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of boots

Postby telebro » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:16 pm

I am having the same issue with the Axl binding and T-race boot. I was curious if you ever resolved your issue or had any suggestions on how to repair the boot. I am debating whether to resole it, attempt to shoe goo it, or just buy another pair of T-race while they're still available. Thanks for any advice.
20161126_184518.jpg

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of boots

Postby telemarkmark » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:52 am

I have Axyls, on Scottybob Headrush, with Garmont Squadra boots, no problems so far.
I did notice that the (very old) boots do not sit flat, now having a good toe rocker. This does not help with initiating the turn. My solution is to put a wedged shim into the binding below the toe to take out the slack, also to remove some of the thickness of the duckbill on the top as well as thinning down the rubber sole where it contacts the binding (note: old boots!). Now almost flat, yet to try out, though I did similar with my Chilis some years back, which really helped.
The shim can be removable for touring.
Best wishes from Scotland.
(I day trip so far, up Ben Lawers - 2,500ft climb. Snow a bit thin, so used old rock-hoppers)

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Re: 22 Design Axl bindings damaging front part of sole of boots

Postby dnt_upton » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:57 pm

telebro wrote:I am having the same issue with the Axl binding and T-race boot. I was curious if you ever resolved your issue or had any suggestions on how to repair the boot. I am debating whether to resole it, attempt to shoe goo it, or just buy another pair of T-race while they're still available. Thanks for any advice.

That's pretty bad. I get grooves on the sides of the duckbill, but don't get it that bad except for boots that are 5+ years old.

As for a fix, is there any play in the binding when you put your chewed boot in there? If no, I'd probably go cheap and just epoxy it up. If yes, I'd still probably epoxy it up to see if you can make it solid. If that's not possible, then go to your other two options.

Regardless, if you love your T Races, I'd get a new pair too since they've been discontinued, and then I'd keep skiing the old ones until they totally crap out.


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