Science vs. Philosophy

[MikeK]

Second Law of Thermodynamics, perfect example of...

And then God said:

[Johnny]

none of them are based on any sort of evidence that we could use to prove definitively

Again, that's exactly the main problem with science men. There is absolutely no need to prove anything!!! "Proving" involves human-created concepts. The only way to prove something is with accumulated knowledge. There's no way to prove something if you don't have the knowledge yet. You can't prove anything about physics if you don't know a thing about physics. They're all concepts anyway. No one ever held an atom in his hand. No one ever went to Saturn. So it's all bullshit right? You can't prove a single scientific concept, it's all only theories based on your super limited 5-sense cognitive observations that you mistakenly take for "life" or "truth"...

So in order to gain knowledge on truth itself, you have to study the right thing. The only way to know the truth is to study truth itself. Not maths, science or physics. It has nothing to do with it.

Theosophy, religions, spirituality, esoterism and occultism are studying truth. Science, physics, chemistry, engineering and thermodynamics are studying human-created physical problems, things that don't exist without cognition. Two completely different things.

Some people express the idea that life is a mechanism of the universe attempting to observe and quantify itself.

Beautiful....! This is pretty close..!

Hey Mike, when are you gonna upload your math scribbles you talked to me about so when can compare them with Ron's?

And then God said /...\

[MikeK]

Math scribbles?

I threw mine away, remember?

Science goes a bit beyond our 5 senses, but yes, that is why I said it's all related to tangible stuff. And of course we can never see atoms or Saturn, our eyes are only photon detectors, we can only 'see' light, ever! We never see or feel actual objects, only their interaction with light and feel electromagnetic forces. But that's just a theory that seems to work in practical terms. You could say it's all playdough and candy canes and it doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless you want to travel to space or something like that... then it kinda matters.

Related to the intangible, people have fought over this for millennia. I say potato, you say potatoe... and no one can agree, so let's kill each other over it.

I'm pretty sure I get your POV Johnny, and I don't disagree with it, it's just not my preferred view of the world. Mine involves humble confusion interlaced with incremental learning and then forgetting.

You should talk to my wife, she has a much different view than I do. Like everything mine is very tangible and mechanical - it's just what makes sense to me.

[MikeK]

Regarding proof, see this earlier post:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=357&start=10#p8672

I think we'll agree that proof only works in certain situations.


And, Johnny, I thought you and I agreed on the one truth that all the religions point to when I was asking you if you had read the Qur'an.

I'm not sure it is The Truth, but it's what I believe. It also happens to be the hardest thing to do.

[Johnny]

That's the trick... Study and cultivate as many worldviews as you can... Scientific ones, boring ones, funny ones, wicked crazy ones... So if one day Truth ever comes your way, you'll be able to recognize her... Or else you won't even notice she's there and she'll go away, sad... Saying to herself "Fuck off, I'm wasting my time here" and she'll never come back...

humble confusion interlaced with incremental learning and then forgetting.

Ahahahahah! That's funny... Is it?

[MikeK]

Yes, it's funny... because it's true.

We better stop, it's starting to sound like we are forming a cult I'm pretty sure this is how Scientology started...

[connyro]

Theosophy, religions, spirituality, esoterism and occultism are studying truth. Science, physics, chemistry, engineering and thermodynamics are studying human-created physical problems, things that don't exist without cognition. Two completely different things.

Strongly disagree with you here LJ. They are ALL looking towards the same 'truth' but take different routes from each other. They ALL include rules, laws, theories, boundaries, assumptions, and a very limited scope when taken individually. It's all true and it's all false.

[MikeK]

Drink the Kool-aid... join our cult...

[Johnny]

I agree with you coleronny... They all have different rules and laws...

But my point was that the reason of their existence is the quest for truth. They study things you cannot put a name on. They study internal stuff.

On the other hand, science is the opposite. Science only tries to put a name on everything. It tries to quantify everything, to put a name tag on everything that our senses see in the external world. Which is useless, since truth, by it's own nature, is the only thing you can't name or mention. You can only "know" and "feel" it... Science will never see and understand what Spirituality sees. But Spirituality fully understands science already. Why study only half of the stuff?

We better stop, it's starting to sound like we are forming a cult

Should we lock the thread now...?

Science: NTN, Black Diamond, Heliskiing, Steeps, Fat skis, racing skis...
Spirituality: Pins, leathers, woods, backyard fun, skinnies, XCD...

[MikeK]

But don't you love both Johnny? I mean development AND old school fun?

I know I sure do! Why do you think I have a carbon/Kevlar canoe with wood trim... what sense does that make?

And I have shaped XC skis! What kind of bullshit is that?

Science only tries to put a name on everything. It tries to quantify everything, to put a name tag on everything that our senses see in the external world. Which is useless, since truth, by it's own nature, is the only thing you can't name or mention. You can only "know" and "feel" it... Science will never see and understand what Spirituality sees. But Spirituality fully understands science already. Why study only half of the stuff?

My wife thinks the EXACT same thing of science.