Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

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Rokjox
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby Rokjox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:20 pm

Ok, I see a trend here and I am obviously way under the level of experetise here. I am not a gearhead, I am a rider.

But damn, I thought you said you were looking for a Mtn. Bike. I don't now your intended terrain, but if its MOUNTAINS I kinda see that you are doing just about everything you can to avoid actually getting one.

A Mtn bike. To me, if it don't go squish its not a mtn bike, what, you don't actually BELIEVE in shocks? "Lock out" means LOCKED OUT, you don't bob, just like the hardtails, but hten you can turn it ON and ride over rediculous bumps without getting your tail spanked or pitched around... A MTN bike is not going to be some crossed up sorta mtn bike, its a MTN bike.

Get one or not, its a specialized vehicle, and unless you like urban Bicycle Parkour a real mtn bike is not wanted there, its a MTN bike.

I see some guys riding hardtails with minimalist rigs, on baby faced trails built for walkers, they don't ride the bumps much less the drops, or most of the obsticles, they WALK. Thats ok as far as it goes, but its not MTN biking, its WALKING with a lite bike. You can't take a HIT with a 3" street shock, You want to RIDE the bike or WALK it?

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MikeK
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby MikeK » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:27 pm

I know it's expensive, but I was thinking of just having a complete hub/cassette/disc set for each tire. That way it's just a QR slap job to change. It's probably cheaper than having two bikes.

My dream of having a single chainring is probably a delusion, unless I want to change it every time I ride on the road vs. trail.

Having a single bike is harder than having a single pair of skis...

I'm also not sure I want to invest the time and effort into a frame up build - I don't have the tools anymore (I had a fair deal at one time) and to buy them to build one bike seems a bit crazy.

I'm also tad bit hesitant to buy a bike without riding it, although they never let you ride them in a situation where you'll be able to know if you actually like them. Riding around a paved parking lot for 5 min tells me about as much looking through geometry specs on a web page... I won't know until I shoot it down a steep hill, or ride it on the road for an hour, or try to climb something loose and rooty if I like it. Anyway at least I KNOW, not from measuring myself or another bike that it fits my body...

There is a Surley dealer here in town, but I know that shop, and I doubt they have anything in stock.

Probably my best bet is to get something that 90% what I want, then modify it as I see fit. There's also a chance I can find that bike locally although it will probably be a Trek, Cannondale or Specialized.

I guess then the real question becomes do I go for a Hybrid and try to make it a trail bike, or buy a trail bike, and make it a hybrid?

I do camp a lot, but it's usually by foot or boat - I've not yet caught the bug to try with a bike. This is more something for after work or non-tripping weekends to burn off a few beers.

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MikeK
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby MikeK » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:53 pm

Rokjox wrote:Ok, I see a trend here and I am obviously way under the level of experetise here. I am not a gearhead, I am a rider.

But damn, I thought you said you were looking for a Mtn. Bike. I don't now your intended terrain, but if its MOUNTAINS I kinda see that you are doing just about everything you can to avoid actually getting one.

A Mtn bike. To me, if it don't go squish its not a mtn bike, what, you don't actually BELIEVE in shocks? "Lock out" means LOCKED OUT, you don't bob, just like the hardtails, but hten you can turn it ON and ride over rediculous bumps without getting your tail spanked or pitched around... A MTN bike is not going to be some crossed up sorta mtn bike, its a MTN bike.

Get one or not, its a specialized vehicle, and unless you like urban Bicycle Parkour a real mtn bike is not wanted there, its a MTN bike.

I see some guys riding hardtails with minimalist rigs, on baby faced trails built for walkers, they don't ride the bumps much less the drops, or most of the obsticles, they WALK. Thats ok as far as it goes, but its not MTN biking, its WALKING with a lite bike. You can't take a HIT with a 3" street shock, You want to RIDE the bike or WALK it?


Hmm - well I know this is all very confusing, but I'll help you out. First off, the OP was rhetorical, meaning I wasn't actually going to buy a MTB, I was just happy they were thinking about building some trails about 4 hrs from me... which brings up the second thing...

Take a look where I live:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rochester,+NY/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e?sa=X&ei=wnE6VfryJdH-sAS0voGwBQ&ved=0CIsBEPIBMBA

See any mountains?

Now if I head about an hour south, I get some hills and valleys. That's where I'm from and where I used to ride, but as I was saying, they've made it illegal to ride most of the stuff I used to ride, which was XC singletrack. I could rip that shit with a hard tail. Never needed FS. Now there are some fire roads they still let you ride bikes on, but fuck I could ride those with a BMX bike like Johnny wants to do. I could go a lot faster with a hardtail with a good front shock, and I could be pedaling balls out with FS...

So anyway there's some mountains about 3 hrs from me to the east. That's where I do most of my skiing. I used to ride up there too, but a lot of the good trails aren't legal to ride, and a lot of the ones that are are rutty mud pits:

ADK bike trail:

Image

Anyway the real rub of it is during the summer, if I'm up in the 'mountains' (our mountains are actually just as much lake country as they are mountains) I'm usually doing a backpack or canoe trip with the wife. So it doesn't leave me much for the MTB.

I'm kinda stuck with what I have locally except for maybe a couple times a year when I might have time to ride a fire road or old truck trail.

Thing is, even on a easy trail, I can fuckin' rip on a good hardtail. I can't ride as aggressively on the crosstrail/hybrid. It's just not as stable. I can't jump it like I can a real MTB. That's why I was saying a dirt jump might be fun, but it would suck to ride on the road... and more than half my riding will be on roads or paved 'trails'. It's just how it is. Riding a two chainring MTB on the roads is horrible, and I'll never keep up with my wife on her road bike.

So either I get a hybrid or build one, and ride kinda more delicately, but still be able to ride off road... or I get a MTB and keep my road bike...

I hadn't actually considered any of this seriously until a couple days ago... so I'm kinda thinking out loud here. All I know is I have a bike I don't ride much, and I'd like to change that.

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connyro
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby connyro » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:01 pm

Rokjox wrote:Ok, I see a trend here and I am obviously way under the level of experetise here. I am not a gearhead, I am a rider.

But damn, I thought you said you were looking for a Mtn. Bike. I don't now your intended terrain, but if its MOUNTAINS I kinda see that you are doing just about everything you can to avoid actually getting one.

A Mtn bike. To me, if it don't go squish its not a mtn bike, what, you don't actually BELIEVE in shocks? "Lock out" means LOCKED OUT, you don't bob, just like the hardtails, but hten you can turn it ON and ride over rediculous bumps without getting your tail spanked or pitched around... A MTN bike is not going to be some crossed up sorta mtn bike, its a MTN bike.

Get one or not, its a specialized vehicle, and unless you like urban Bicycle Parkour a real mtn bike is not wanted there, its a MTN bike.

I see some guys riding hardtails with minimalist rigs, on baby faced trails built for walkers, they don't ride the bumps much less the drops, or most of the obsticles, they WALK. Thats ok as far as it goes, but its not MTN biking, its WALKING with a lite bike. You can't take a HIT with a 3" street shock, You want to RIDE the bike or WALK it?


I've gone through full-circle with MTB's. I remember lusting after the first version of RockShox fork back in the day when I was riding a rigid steel bike. I just got rid of my Specialized Enduro (6" travel front/back, thru-bolt axles etc) and now just ride rigid. I guess I got bored of all the suspension and maintenance that goes with it. I can ride basically the same terrain, but not nearly as fast and aggressively as on a full suspension, and I like the change of pace. I also like how MTB designs are much more diverse these days, from camping and touring rigs (XCD?) to full on downhill pigs (heavy tele/alpine?). It opens up much more terrain and audience than a narrow focus on single-track and technical downhills.

"If we all ski with our hands up and out makes you wonder if you don't your going to plaster some trees.....Those poles have to be in a ready position or....."
-Teleman

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MikeK
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby MikeK » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:37 pm

I agree with you connyro. The breadth of bikes these days is AMAZING. It is like skis.

I'm definitely in the market for more XCD type of niche. I don't need a ton of suspension travel. I'd like it to be lockable for smooth surfaces. I do prefer a front fork over a fully rigid for trails. I do need a wide range of gears, unfortunately... But it is that weird middle ground between road (XC) and dirt (D) that I crave. If I just have one or the other I wind up with bikes that I don't ride because riding around my house means riding on both.

I certainly don't like carrying my bike. I also don't do the shuttle to top or ride a lift thing. To be quite honest everything I used to ride hardtail MTB, I can never remember getting off my bike for a descent, only ascents. And dude, I've probably done bigger jumps on quarter pipes with fully rigid bikes than anything you've done on a trail... I've also taco-shelled a few rims on them as well. Like connyro says, you just can't charge as hard with a rigid or hardtail bike... but bikes have brakes, so it's actually easier to do that than with skis, IMO (I tried to explain that to my wife as a selling point for trying mountain biking, didn't work).

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MikeK
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby MikeK » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:47 am

I tested out some bikes yesterday.

I didn't even mess with the Spec Crosstrail. They've wimped them out since the one I had.

I tried a Cannondale Quick CX and Trek DS. Not a ton of difference but the Trek had better components, a much better front shock, and better tires IMO. I rode the Trek on some pavement, muddy grass, and off a few curbs. It's a capable bike for urban bombing... better than what I have and comparable to what I did have. It's almost a real 29er. Skinnier tires and less shock travel are the big differences I noticed... oh and wider gear range on the drivetrain.

I did find a Krampus too. I didn't ride it because it was spec'd with single chainring and big tires. Also the $2k price tag deterred me. It was very light for a steel bike with big tires. I'd chalk most of that up to lack of a suspension fork and the wheel/tire design. Surly is still in the back of my mind, but for 2k, I really want the bike spec'd exactly how I want. The Ogre is actually the closest to what I want, but I'd eschew the curly handlebar, want skinnier tires and a lockable suspension fork.

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LoveJohnny
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby LoveJohnny » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 am

That's what I bought last fall... I sold my expensive Kona Process 2013 and got a cheap Cannondale Trail SL3 29er... Or is it SL4? Can't remember, it's in the basement and I haven't tried it yet... Looks pretty cool for a cheap bike...

Image

Image
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
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MikeK
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby MikeK » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:15 am

Yeah I'm trying to decide if I just pop on the cheap Trek, which I like, or go through the headache of doing the semi-custom thing with Surly. I spent most of this weekend in bike shops or on the computer looking at bike parts... It's kind of feeling like work... and I missed two days I could have ridden or done shit around the house.

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connyro
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby connyro » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:58 pm

In a nutshell, my advice is to avoid hybrid/DS bikes and get a good 29er hardtail with good wheels and a decent fork. A good MTB will outperform a hybrid/DS bike on both pavement and dirt. The bikes offered in the $800-$1000 range are usually pretty darned good bikes with good parts specs. Try to shop at your LBS instead of online for two simple reasons: LBS' will take care of you if you run into problems, and LBS' offer expertise, advice, and information that you may not have available to you when purchasing online. Try to get as thorough of a test ride in as possible. MikeK, check your PM's. I sent a rather long-winded response...like it or not!

"If we all ski with our hands up and out makes you wonder if you don't your going to plaster some trees.....Those poles have to be in a ready position or....."
-Teleman

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Rokjox
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Re: Maybe I'll invest in a mountain bike again

Postby Rokjox » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:03 pm

Sorry guy.

I forget what it means I live in the West...

My State pop is less than a nameless eastern burg.

Sat. I did about 11+ miles, with about 6000 feet drop. Coupla my buds like heading downhill on average, one is 69 the other has a tin hip from a bike crash. I possess a very expensive titanium reinforced spine I'm proud of. My son hadn't ridden in over a year, couldn't get the doc to release his wrist to constant vibration since the surgery. So he got a new bike, a five year old Scott off a friend who son had never ridden it but a couple times. With 8 inch discs, the downhill was pretty easy! So we went downhill for 8 out of 11 miles, maybe more... it was sweaty enough getting back to the shuttle vehicles, about a good mile push up a harsh hill. Even with the kid, our average age is about 52, so downhill is cool, you go ride the other way, I know you want to...

I drove a shuttle. Put a total of 40 miles on it, so much because I live on the wrong side of town. My 4awd beater van holds five with all gear, beer and several dogs, indoors (inc. whole bikes), and cost me $250 plus repairs of about $500... we is low budget riders. Car Registration is about $60 a year.

The Scott was about $1800 new, with XTR tubeless wheelsets, cost the kid $700 Sat. The rest of us bought our bikes when they were expensive, mine cost me more than any car I have owned, I think.

So Saturday was a big day. ... I like gravity...

Sorry about being a Flatlander. It's hard to imagine.
Last edited by Rokjox on Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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