Fischer E89 Crown

[lilcliffy]

The effects could also be compounded by the snow conditions. You spoke of traction a little bit...I know that if I am slipping a lot- my feet get sore and cramped up- I end up over-compensating with my pole plant (exhausting).

For example- I went out yesterday morning for a quick cruise on my Eons (waxless)- it was -23 degrees Celsius (not sure what crazy temp that is in American ) I was planning on skiing on my broken track, but the traction was so poor- I turned around, fetched my Annums and broke a fresh trail through unbroken snow.

I cannot stand waxless xcountry skis on very cold hard snow- and the only waxable skis I currently have are for the track. I need to fix that.

[MikeK]

You know the reason I got rid of my last waxless pair of skis is because I was only skiing here in Rochester, and since we are close to Lake Ontario, often receive a moderating effect on temperature. Cold for us is usually in the -5 to -10 C range. We've had a number of -20 C days this year though, which is rather rare I think.

At any rate I've been considering a wax pair of skis for such reasons as you mention, plus I tend to ski a lot more in the Adirondacks these days where it's often -20C or less this time of year.

The thing that concerns me is my wife dealing with a wax ski - it will then be my headache if it becomes bothersome and will she reap the benefits of it? A wax Eon could fulfill all our needs for broken trails, be faster and provide better grip - but with me fussing with two more sets of skis? I fear if I get a wax pair and keep her on waxless she'll not be able to keep up and I won't get the benefit because I'll be stopping every min or so to wait for her to catch up.

I'm still on the fence - but this pair of skis is starting to convince me waxless is a waste of time with a skinny ski unless perhaps the conditions are around or above 0C - and even then waxless is not impervious to lack of grip or clumping.

[lilcliffy]

A waxless ski is ideal for warmer, wetter snow (unless you want to deal with klister). I use a liquid glide wax (buffed with a cork) in sticky snow- works great.

Interesting- I have the same issue with my wife- and my kids- I end up doing all of the maintenance on equipment- including waxing. I happen to be a weirdo that likes looking after things (hence my affection for farming).

[MikeK]

I use the liquid glide too on waxless but maybe because I don't cork buff it, it tends to wear off on a long tour. Sometimes I need to reapply mid-day or I get some sticking.

Yeah well I don't think my wife cares for dealing with or maintaining gear - she seems to just like to reap the benefits

[MikeK]

More info on these skis:

I continue to think this... they are no Madshus! Today, 20F skied on some new snow and in old tracks, grip is still a minor issue. Glide is back, much better at these temps.

I skied in some more technical terrain today. Not really very hilly but in tight trees. I was following someones snowshoe track as the snow is so deep I can't take these out on their own. They did OK - I started to feel the length getting in my way in some spots. Going down little shots where one might have to turn I had to go straight, stop, step and get back into my path or traverse. With the S Bounds I would have just railed that stuff. I'm definitely remembering why I prefer real BC skis for stuff like this.

Back on the wider paths I tried using stem and parallel turns and I was able to get them to respond. To parallel I had to lift the inside ski completely - it's not really much worth it to do that.

Honestly - yeah I spent $200 on them so I should be touting their prowess... but this, my 3rd time on them, I'd rather ski my Glitts. Maybe in the wax version this ski would be nice as it's lack of grip wouldn't be an issue, but whether it's the pattern or the flex, I'd rather have the postive grip of the MGV+ Madshus waxless pattern.

[lilcliffy]

IMO- these are "real" backcountry-xcountry skis. But- as you describe very well- they are not designed to offer efficient downhill performance. The only context I can see these skis being used as a telemark ski is in Cima's example- short length on firm, consolidated snow.

IMO- these are classic double-cambered backcountry-xcountry skis; designed for gentle to rolling terrain- to perform on firm, dense, and/or hard snow- in either open country, or on forest roads/trails. In this context I would want as long a length as I could get- maximum gliding performance. At the optimal length, grip wax is going to immensely outperform a waxless base- except on relatively warm, wet, corn snow.

A ski like the E89 has a very narrow range of performance applications.

I completely agree with you- the Glittertind is a much more versatile ski than the E89.

How does the the E89 compare to your E99s?

[MikeK]

Yes, of course you are correct they are a real BC ski - I'm just a little peeved with myself I didn't get them in a wax version. The lack of grip really kills them (yet on a wider ski that waxless pattern works AWESOME). I think I would have been happier with a Voss in this class of ski just because the Madshus pattern might be better. The interesting thing is that Madshus uses a different pattern on it's skinnier, double camber skis than it does on it's wider 1.5 and single camber brethren. They might be onto something there.

They do turn on mild slopes - the technique is just more brute force than elegance though. The edge gives them a clear advantage of cutting into the snow and going where you want them when you do make a turn.

It's really hard for me to compare the E99s we had. My wife was skiing them and they were 190cm, so to me, sized down much like CIMA would. They also had poor grip but I thought it was the 'mountain crown' negative pattern that Fischer used previously that was the issue. These are maybe slightly better, but still not up to par IMO.

I'm probably going to ditch these skis for a wax Glittertind or Voss. If I could get a wax version of exactly what I have for decent money I might go with that as well. The ski itself is not bad.

[lilcliffy]

I keep wanting to be convinced that the Fischers are worth the extra money (e.g. E89 vs Voss; E99 vs Glittertind).

I remain unconvinced. I have pretty much decided on the Voss, 210cm, waxable.

The E89 may be better made than the Voss (Ukraine vs China respectively)- but I think the higher price reflects the higher manufacturing cost.

The Voss and the Glittertind are well-designed and well-made skis- and you cannot beat the price.

And- based on at least your experiences- the Glittertind and Voss are probably more versatile backcountry skis than the E89 and E99- at least when it comes to variable snow/terrain.

I have found better grip with the Madshus waxless designs as well.

As far as Cima's telemark application with these double-cambered skis- he is going much shorter- 170cm.

[MikeK]

Yeah we didn't get the E99 for what CIMA is doing. Mainly sized for my wife's height and ability.

She's skiing my 200cm Glittertinds on easy terrain now. The first time she tried to ski them she went down a mild slope and immediately asked me to switch back with her to the E99s

I'm leaning more toward the Voss as well, mainly seen as how I have a Glittertind I can ski if I want. I think I'm going to stick with 200cm though.

[bgregoire]

Hey MikeK,

This could be a product of your switch to a system binding (i.e. NNNBC).

The system bindings allow the complete extension of your foot through the stride- right to your toes. (this is at least one of the reasons why NNN/SNS offers higher performance efficiency than 75mm-NN)

At the beginning of the season, my feet are always sore and tired when I first start skiing on NNN. After a few times out the soreness goes away- as my feet get back into shape. Although I walk/hike endless 100s of miles a year- I am not a runner. Only runners would work their suspension in the same way that the system bindings allow/encourage. The Nordic stride on NNN/SNS is more like the complete articulation of a runner than 75mm-NN. 75mm-NN works the feet more like walking.

Of course your problem could be boot related- but I am suspicious that it may be that your feet are getting a serious work out on NNN bindings.

I agree with lilcliffy. Have had similar pain under foot and always attributed it to overworked muscles that did not get enough exercise. The pain goes away with time. You could always try playing around with the liners and socks. I found pain was reduced with thinner liners. But then again, I bet it will simply go away with practise! Haver fun GLIDING out of tracks!!!