Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

They are actually designed as a "Playful all-rounder for alpine touring", especially made for tech bindings... So you probably can't go wrong...

I use them with NNN as a pure powder ski and wouldn't take them anywhere else that way... So I can't really comment... But with tech bindings and plastics, that would be another story... Perhaps you would be better with something a bit narrower for what you plan to do though...? I think the Nosi would be much more fun for uncertain conditions...

w8n4snow wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:27 am

Curious if anyone has mounted these with tech bindings and been in the Alpine with them. Steep neve or ice? How is the edge hold on hard snow? Torsional rigidity? Lots of sidecut makes me a bit wary, but it doesn’t tell the whole story I reckon.

Looking for a new mountaineering ski for the big peaks. Long, tedious approaches with heavy loads on crust, bottomless sugar, gravel, willows, ice, or slush. Ideally they would disappear for the climb, then offer tools for salvation on the somewhat controlled plunge around, above, and through various causes of death that decorate the peaks that we love.

As J said, designed for tech, not tele, so I think you're going to be OK on that front. They have some mass, real sidealls. They have a lot of rocker up front and a big high tip that won't get stuck under anything, a flat and stiff tail which is wider before the end, then it tapers. So when turning you get the release through the taper instead of early rise or rocker in the tail. I'm a bit on the fence about the flat tails, sometimes when I'm in steeper chutes or in trees I want to be able to slide backwards to position myself a bit better without the tails digging in. I have not skied these in that kind of terrain yet, but got them specifically for it, and I think they'll deliver on the steeper terrain around Mt. Washington. But again, the tails.

It's stiffer, burlier, and more rigid ski than the Objectives. More support than the Objectives, and will probably behave better under load on steeps. I love the Objectives but on firm steep (as in steep-steep) snow they can chatter quite a bit.

Any pictures you want?

Thank you for your comments. I understand that there are quite a few skis out there that fit the bill- it’s the tips and skin lock that really speak to me. These two features are very handy in the AK range in my experience. The approaches/overland travel must be as efficient as possible when a beautiful peak is looming in the distance...

Not having a chance to get these skis in hand, I worry that they are just a flimsy wide xcd ski for rolling terrain. All rounders usually aren’t. From your comments, it sounds like I needn’t worry, though. I do like the sounds of a stiff flat tail- nice to be able to count on that ~60cm of edge sometimes. The taper sounds like the ticket to avoid stickiness where there’s no rocker. I am very familiar with the stabbing tail phenom in steep narrow couloirs or micro skiing in Mixed terrain. I almost died once side slipping through huge waves of sastrugi on Sultana by skewering a tail. But, flat tails are way more useful in the mountains for anchors, tent stakes, for cornice knives etc. The sidewalls sound nice-thought I spied that in the photos. That’s a good sign for edge hold and decreasing chatter. I haven’t skied Objectives but have other Voile skis and love their designs- good working man’s skis made in America.

High mountain skis are a weird combo. I’ll look at the Nosis some more. Even more sidecut? Lighter? Low tips? Hmmmm.

Thanks again!

w8n4snow wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:00 pm

Thank you for your comments. I understand that there are quite a few skis out there that fit the bill- it’s the tips and skin lock that really speak to me. These two features are very handy in the AK range in my experience. The approaches/overland travel must be as efficient as possible when a beautiful peak is looming in the distance...

Not having a chance to get these skis in hand, I worry that they are just a flimsy wide xcd ski for rolling terrain. All rounders usually aren’t. From your comments, it sounds like I needn’t worry, though. I do like the sounds of a stiff flat tail- nice to be able to count on that ~60cm of edge sometimes. The taper sounds like the ticket to avoid stickiness where there’s no rocker. I am very familiar with the stabbing tail phenom in steep narrow couloirs or micro skiing in Mixed terrain. I almost died once side slipping through huge waves of sastrugi on Sultana by skewering a tail. But, flat tails are way more useful in the mountains for anchors, tent stakes, for cornice knives etc. The sidewalls sound nice-thought I spied that in the photos. That’s a good sign for edge hold and decreasing chatter. I haven’t skied Objectives but have other Voile skis and love their designs- good working man’s skis made in America.

High mountain skis are a weird combo. I’ll look at the Nosis some more. Even more sidecut? Lighter? Low tips? Hmmmm.

Thanks again!

No, the Tindan86 is not a flimsy wide XCD ski.

Hey, great perspective on the flat tails, I never thought about it that way since I'm usually day-tripping or camping below treeline.

I love my Voile V6's they are a dream. The Objective, as an 84mm ski which might be assumed to be an equivalent ski to the Tindan, is not equivalent. The Objective is paulownia, very light, soft flexing vs. the Tindan with a poplar core, is heavier (but still light), and more firm flexing, though this flex is round throughout the ski. The tail is not rock-hard old school race stiff, but stiffer than the Objective or V6, think more along the lines of the old original Vector, maybe a tad softer. More "snap" in the flex too.

Thank you, Woods. Your comments ring true and your use of the Universal Ski Dialect is easily understood by me. That is all sounding very nice indeed. Perhaps St Nick can swing through Germany and grab a pair of 187s.

Read something interesting- if “free shipping” were a country, it would be the fourth largest emitter of Carbon in the world. Thought provoking anyway. Of course it is just all “shipping” in the end. Anybody know anywhere other than SportAlbert to buy a pair?

Hi Johnny, I’d like to know if you're still as high on the Tindan as you were two years ago...whether you and the group would recommend it or something else for touring-to-telemark with 75mm cables and 2-buckle plastic…and if so, your suggestions on length (Asnes doesn’t provide guidance on sizing this ski).

Some background — My skinny skis are still vintage Epoke 900s in 210cm, which I use in groomed tracks for telemarking the odd hill using SNS boots and bindings, having started in the 1970s on Asnes Tur Langren 210s.

For XCd, based on your great reviews on this site, I’ve recently upgraded to Asnes Ingstad WL 195s, to break trail and tour longer distances with turns on forested trails in East Coast hilly terrain: West Virginia, the Shenandoahs, Catskills and such. There I’ll use NNN BC Magnums and the Alfa Guard Advance GTX (similar to the gear of the friend I ski with).

For xcD, the idea is to get these turning on on the steeper parts of Whitegrass, West Virginia, or Mount Bohemia in Michigan, some Tuckerman Ravine-style slopes up north, return to the Wasatch where I was a ski bum long ago, join my son who's a Utah mountain guide in ski mountaineering when he’s on AT gear, and get occasional playtime on listserved bumps and steeps when my friends ski the resort.

I have some Alpina Cross Terrain 180cms I got in 2005 around the time they first came out (102-64 -87, same as their newer Discovery 102), with scales, Voile Hardwire 3-pins, and Alpina 1675 75mm leathers. They’re fun to bash around on, but I find them rather harsh, don't enjoy bending the duckbill of that boot in that binding so much after my SNS/NNN experience, and wonder if they’re really telemark skis anyway.

So inspired by the GAS in full bloom on this site, I'm looking to upgrade for practicing telemark on steeper slopes with gear still on the light side that I wouldn't mind climbing with. I happily spent a day on rented heavy tele gear skiing the lifts at Ski Cooper in Leadville and telemarked everything they had. In February I spent a few days on rented light AT gear, both listserved and backcountry in Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons. But I found both the 178cm Voile Hyper V6 and the Scott Cosmo III too heavy and awkward to enjoy climbing, even with the promise of steep turns at the end.

For this tour-to-tele rig I'm thinking Scott Excursions (for the comfort of my EE hobbit feet), with Voile Switchback X2s (for the free pivot and classic telemark technique). Based on your Objective BC reviews, I thought that was a good answer, in WL to cut transition time. But your comparison with the Tindan has persuaded me they might be a better choice, plus then I could use the same Asnes skins as the Ingstads, and the grip waxes I have for the Epokes.

I'm 5'10", 167 pounds plus pack, 63 yrs old. What do you think — go long (your usual advice) in the Tindan to 187? Or with tele turns (and my advancing age) in mind, stop at 176? And would that ski be your pick, or something else to tele on.

Hello Peter!
Welcome!
Thank you for joining us!
Don't own a Tindan- but am considering it- along with the Objective and the V6/HyperV6.

A couple of notes-
- the skin insert on the Tindan is the wider "Access Skin"- the Skin-Lock/X-Skin inserts on your Ingstad are narrower.

The Tindan is a fair tad heavier than the Objective- the HypeV6 is only slightly heavier than the Tindan (the V6/HyperV6 is the really the ski that I want)-
Pretty sure that the Tindan has a reinforced binding zone (more durable for 75mm Telemark bindings) and a semi-cap construction- am I correct in that?

You going to be skiing trees in the Eastern Mountains with this ski?

We are of the same height- I am a bit heavier than you- although I would love to be skiing above tree line and have a 188cm V6- I am trying to force myself to accept that 178cm is the longest I should go for skiing tight lines in Eastern Glades. I am also forcing myself to consider whether I shouldn't go as short as ~170cm...

Keep posting and telling your ski story!

(BTW- what do you think of the Ingstad and the Guard boot? (pls post in the other threads!))

lilcliffy wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:35 am

- the skin insert on the Tindan is the wider "Access Skin"- the Skin-Lock/X-Skin inserts on your Ingstad are narrower.

Good to know!

lilcliffy wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:35 am

Pretty sure that the Tindan has a reinforced binding zone (more durable for 75mm Telemark bindings) and a semi-cap construction- am I correct in that?

Yes on the semi-cap but I don't know about the reinforced binding zone [EDIT: Asnes says it has a "carbon cross reinforcement."] In general that seems like a big reason to choose a more tele-specific ski than any of the Voiles. As much as I like what I've heard and read about them (including a convincing low-noise comparison of the Objective's fishscales against Fischer's on YouTube), they don't appear to make a ski they warranty for tele bindings. And I do tend to ski hard on gear, so I can imagine a tele binding popping off someday if I get an AT-specific ski.

lilcliffy wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:35 am

You going to be skiing trees in the Eastern Mountains with this ski?

We are of the same height- I am a bit heavier than you- although I would love to be skiing above tree line and have a 188cm V6- I am trying to force myself to accept that 178cm is the longest I should go for skiing tight lines in Eastern Glades. I am also forcing myself to consider whether I shouldn't go as short as ~170cm...

Yes, I think unavoidably because...it's the East. I should probably admit to myself that I don't have to own the ski I would take to the Wasatch because I could rent something there, maybe not in my choice of binding.

Which brings me to the Meidjo 3.0, which I didn't mention before — should I skip over the Switchback X2, and go all the way to that, or would that be overkill on the Tindan? If so what's the lightest tele boot that would work?

EDIT: I've just been on the Meidjo 3.0 thread learning about this stuff, and think I'll push my leathers and maybe a 2-buckle plastic to the max before deciding whether I need to go heavier.

P.S. The Ingstad and Guard are on the way from Finland right now...will let you know when I get them on the snow!

Peter, if you’re in DC and driving to Mt. Bohemia, I’m less than a mile off I-75 in Auburn Hills, MI. I can at a minimum let you put your hands on a Tindan. If there is enough snow I would be able to take you for a quick tour.
Okay, now my question for you. If you’re in DC, why go to Bohemia which is really cool, when Vermont and New Hampshire offer more in terms of terrain and in micro-climes more snow???
Just curious, the drive for me to Bohemia and Vermont is comparable. The difference is I know a lot of places on the way to break up the trip and ski along the way. I can’t do that driving East.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:18 pm

Okay, now my question for you. If you’re in DC, why go to Bohemia which is really cool, when Vermont and New Hampshire offer more in terms of terrain and in micro-climes more snow???
Just curious, the drive for me to Bohemia and Vermont is comparable. The difference is I know a lot of places on the way to break up the trip and ski along the way. I can’t do that driving East.

I go to Ann Arbor a lot to visit my Dad in a nursing home. In February I drove up to Higgins Lake to find enough snow to cross-country. It's only a few more hours to the Keweenaw, and I've never been to Mount Bohemia, so on my next visit the plan is to sprint up there (and do some socially-distanced car camping). I lived in St. Ignace many moons ago, so that could be a stopover. And now I'll come say hello to you in Auburn Hills! It would be great to make some turns together along the way.

Thanks for the offer to demo your Tindans. A few more questions: What did you decide about length? Are the 100 mm Access skins the ones to get? How did your binding mount position turn out after you posted this a couple of years ago:
https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... 855-/page2