Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Thanks for the update!

Would you be willing to give us your personal perspective on the differences between those three skis?

Nansen vs. Combat Nato vs. Ingstad?

Hey Johnny-
Can you give us an update on this ski?

Specifically- I am keen to hear how they performed in truly deep snow- both XC and downhill skiing.

I am particularly concerned as to whether they are stiff and supportive enough when XC skiing in truly deep, soft snow.

I have a set of 2018 195cm Asnes Ingstad BC skis in my kitchen!

They are beautifully crafted- a work of art really- with thick full-wrap metal edges, sintered bases, and solid wood cores- the paulownia-poplar core makes this ski almost ridiculously lightweight!

NNNBC-Manual bindings are going on these sticks.

I have been obsessively flexing and squeezing these skis for a couple of days now- some initial impressions/comparisons:

- These skis have a full-length, stable flex- their flex reminds me most of my Storetinds (though they have much more camber than the ST)- this ski is even more stable than my beloved deep snow-mile-crushing Combat Nato! They should offer every bit as much glide and stability as my Combat Nato/Storetind- certainly much more than the E-109/Eon/Epoch/Annum in deep snow.
- The tip is remarkably stiff- stiffer than any of the other skis I have flexed in this class (e.g. Eon/E109/Combat Nato). Though the tip on my Combat Nato is stable- it is not as stiff as this new Ingstad- it is MUCH stiffer than the tip on the Eon, E109, and E99. (I honestly cannot believe that after many years on the Eon that I actually initially thought that the E109 had a stable tip!!)
- Though Asnes has indeed chiseled down the broad-elongated tip of the Combat Nato/Ingstad, the new Ingstad still has a decent trail-breaking tip- larger profile than the Eon, E109, E99.
- There is considerable Nordic Rocker- comparable to my E-109 in terms of length- but, the tips rise more than the E-109. These skis will ski short when downhill skiing on consolidated snow- with a forward-feeling mounting point- they will also feel short when XC skiing on consolidated snow- they are clearly designed for soft, backcountry snow. The rockered-tip will offer effective early-tip rise at downhill speeds. The full-length stable flex of these skis should offer XC stability- even with all of that tip rocker!
- The camber-flex underfoot meets the camber-and-a-half profile- though certainly squashable, there is considerable tension underfoot- it takes a lot of force to close that last bit of camber- these skis are certainly meant to cover some distance.
- The tail is flat, stiff and straight- like a XC ski should be- they should track well when XC skiing.

The new Ingstad suggests that it will do everything that the E109 promises, but fails to deliver:
- Superb XC floatation, stability, grip, kick and glide in deep soft snow.
- Controllable camber- controllable enough for efficient climbing and reasonable downhill turns.
- Wonderful turn initiation.
- Effective early-tip rise at downhill speed.

The combination of loads of tension, low camber, full-length stable flex, and a rockered tip!

I will be testing this ski against the Eon, Combat Nato, Combat USGI, E-109, and E-99 this coming winter!!
(I do wish that I had the 205cm Ingstad for a more even comparison!)

Full review to come this winter.

"The new Ingstad will do everything that the E109 promises, but fails to deliver."

Dude, what a rad way to sum up what the new Ingstad is all about! Brilliant!!!

The original Ingstad was exactly the same as the Combat Nato. So you're saying that the old Ingstad/NATO was softer and now the tips are stiffer than the original one to compensate for the rocker? Very, very interesting...! Makes me wanna get my hands on the Combats to feel the difference...

These skis will ski short when downhill skiing on consolidated snow- with a forward-feeling mounting point

That was my first impression too when I got them. Hence the reason I ended up mounting them -1.5, knowing I would use them mostly xcD style...

Ridiculously lightweight... If only they could make a waxless version...

Johnny wrote: The original Ingstad was exactly the same as the Combat Nato. So you're saying that the old Ingstad/NATO was softer and now the tips are stiffer than the original one to compensate for the rocker? Very, very interesting...! Makes me wanna get my hands on the Combats to feel the difference...

My Combat Nato has variable stiffness- though it has a full-length supportive flex- the tip is noticeably softer- though the tip is still much stiffer and more stable than the Eon/E1-09/E99.

There is a tradition- I think- of designing backcountry-xcountry skis with a softer tip in order to accommodate variable snow conditions and improve turn-initiation a bit. Over the last 30 years or so the addition of significant sidecut to these soft-tipped "XCD" skis has created a serious deep-snow performance problem- the tip floats higher than the rest of the ski- especially when XC skiing.

Tip-rocker is a much more effective way to achieve more effective turn-initiation than a soft tip- and also adds the benefit of early-tip rise at downhill speeds (and also shortens effective edge). HOWEVER- in my experience, the combination of a very soft tip with tip-rocker is a complete XC performance disaster- it renders the ski completely unstable when XC skiing in deep, soft snow.

Asnes have stiffened up the tip of the Combat Nato so that the rockered tip is still supportive.

A rockered tip does not need to be soft- in fact it needs to be stiff if it is going to offer any supportive flex.

I hazard a guess that the new Ingstad will not blow the Combat Nato away on the flats- it will probably even lose XC glide and tracking on consolidated snow (HOWEVER- neither of these skis are intended for dense consolidated snow- they are clearly designed for deep, soft backcountry snow). HOWEVER- the new Ingstad is longitudinally rigid- I hazard a guess that it should offer excellent XC stability and flotation- despite its narrow waist. I don't even need to try it to know that it will blow the Eon/Epoch/E109/E99 away as a XC ski in deep snow. And those open tips should make them dreamy coming down hills!

What also surprises me- a bit- is how much tension there remains underfoot in the new Ingstad! I read a description on a Norwegian site that suggested that the new Ingstad has a softer, rounder flex than the Combat Nato- I do not see this at all- this new Ingstad is every bit as stiff and resistant underfoot as the Combat Nato (and the E109)- though not a full-on double-cambered ski (e.g. E99/Glittertind), it clearly fits the definition of camber-and-a-half.

This ski is designed for XC skiing in mountainous terrain- the intent is to improve downhill performance without sacrificing XC performance. CANNOT WAIT TO TRY THEM OUT!

Ridiculously lightweight... If only they could make a waxless version...

Perhaps those are in your box?

Just came up from the basement- some more notes:

The camber and flex of this new Ingstad and my Storetinds are actually pretty damn close...
The Ingstad is only slightly more cambered underfoot than the Storetind.
But- here's the "kicker"- I think that the Storetind has every bit as much underfoot resistance as the 2018 Ingstad...
(This has actually caused me to re-evaluate my perspective on the underfoot flex-camber of my Storetinds- I think that they are more accurately described as camber-and-a-half...)

As another note- my Combat Natos are very noticeably more cambered than the new Ingstad- though that low-profile second camber resistance feels pretty damn close to me...I would rate the low-profile second camber on all 3 (Combat Nato, 2018 Ingstad and Storetind) to be about the same...

As another note- my E109 has even more camber than the 3 Asnes skis- and the second low-profile camber feels the stiffest of the bunch- where the E109 is completely different is its VERY soft, noodily tip.

Once I have the Ingstad mounted up I will see if I can find the time to do some real measurements on all of this!

What width skins are you guys getting for the Ingstads? 45mm or 58mm?

I got the 58's and then promptly screwed them up in a moment of sheer, sheer stupidity and cut OFF 4 FOUR INCHES. The 58 almost goes edge to edge, leaving the steel. I have the 45mm for the Green Man, still not cut.

I used them both today, and I'm slipping on the 58's now with hard corduroy thanks to the shortness. The 45mm work OK. I'm wondering which way to go on the Ingstads. Are the 58's overkill?

Woodserson wrote:What width skins are you guys getting for the Ingstads? 45mm or 58mm?

I got the 58's and then promptly screwed them up in a moment of sheer, sheer stupidity and cut OFF 4 FOUR INCHES. The 58 almost goes edge to edge, leaving the steel. I have the 45mm for the Green Man, still not cut.

I used them both today, and I'm slipping on the 58's now with hard corduroy thanks to the shortness. The 45mm work OK. I'm wondering which way to go on the Ingstads. Are the 58's overkill?

The special nylon 45mm is actually the recommended witdh for the Asnes Nato Combat (same specs). They have a special skin for it:
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/kortfell-45mm-spesial/

Asnes also recommends the 60mm for the Ingstad.

Is it overkill? Depends on your intended use! As you know, the more skin, the steeper you can go.

By the way...

I really doubt 4inchs off was overkill...unless you are a lightweight on a realllllly long pair of Ingstads?

Hey, if it was me, after screaming about it and double checking in another type of snow, I would pull out my trusty Stewart Speedy Stitcher and sew that bit back onto the skin.

Lucky guy, enjoy your Ingstads!

bgregoire wrote:
I really doubt 4inchs off was overkill...unless you are a lightweight on a realllllly long pair of Ingstads?

Well, the great Asnes recommend 4cm to cut off for 195cm ski... I was distracted by little children...

bgregoire wrote:Hey, if it was me, after screaming about it and double checking in another type of snow, I would pull out my trusty Stewart Speedy Stitcher and sew that bit back onto the skin.

Lucky guy, enjoy your Ingstads!

This... is an interesting idea! I love it!

and thanks!

40mm Race X-Skins are my favorite to-go ones here... Couldn't live without them, better than mohair, the closest thing to wax, works under any condition. Access Skins or Nylon X's for climbing...

Even better: The Double-U-L Ingstads!