Falketind 62 Review

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lilcliffy

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:20 pm

fisheater wrote:Hello Gareth, that is my son Nick. He is as tall as me at fifteen. I mounted a three pin cable, without risers, pins on balance point. I reasoned that there was no need for a riser plate at 62 mm under foot. It was also my thought that at least for kick and glide a ski with a lot of sidecut and relatively narrow underfoot would feel more stable, or at least not tippy if it wandered with my boot flat on the ski. I don't really believe this ski would benefit from the riser. The effective edge is pretty reduced by the rocker. Those are my thoughts, perhaps a different skier would see things much differently.

This all makes sense to me.

I have only ever used risers on-piste- the whole experience of riser plates on backcountry Nordic skis is new to me! On the 98mm Kom the riser plate is clearly an advantage downhill skiing- it is going to take me some time to get used to XC skiing with a riser plate...

On the FT 62, on hard packed trails the "wax pocket" is fully depressed onto the snow, and you feel a bit of wax drag. However, with just 4" on top of the hard pack the experience is quite different. The rockered tip rides up, and planes, the ski feels like it glides on the heel. The cool thing is that in a foot of powder, the ski arcs nicely to the surface, but the way the ski flexes it is solid and balanced under foot.

I have yet to ski my Storetinds yet- the perfect BC snow was at least temporarily disturbed by a freezing rain storm on Monday- but, I have been flexing them- A LOT... The Storetind has significant Nordic rocker, is torsionally rigid, and has a stiff flex. I was squeezing them again tonight- they are really quite stiff- they have the round flex of a single-cambered ski, but they are stiff enough that they are not "easy" to squash together with one hand- they are almost like "camber-and-a-half"...Or, at least a stiff flexing single-cambered ski. Regardless the flex pattern of the Storetind is VERY different than my Koms...

There is not a lot to report on the grip wax, except maybe for my general application. My normal skiing is usually not in perfect snow. I apply a couple layers of base binder from heel to tip. Your reports convinced me to order polar white, which I apply tip to tail. Then I follow with wax of the day in the wax pocket, and very often moving forward as far as the shovel if I slip.
My first day waxing the FT 62 followed my normal routine, however harsh resort snow wiped the bases clean in about three hours. Although I did find place to kick around before the bases were clean. Do to my wax loss on Day 1, I got lazy on day 2 and skipped the base binder. Well the soft snow proved to be a different animal, and I was able to retain a wax pocket without the benefit of base binder. This was 5 hours of riding lifts, with skiing into areas requiring a kick back.

So- this is my big question...Is the base binder worth it? I find that the base binder certainly extends the life of kick wax- especially if the binder is ironed in. But, I am finding the Polar ironed into the base offers remarkable wax retention and excellent binding to a softer kick wax over top...I am trying to figure out if I can do without base binder...

The one thing I think I would try, is to try to keep wax pocket wax as "cold" as possible. I think I will try to use one color colder in an attempt to get better glide on hard snow where I get some "wax drag". These skis seem to climb well, it may well work.

It does work- especially with the hard grip wax over the entire base. That hard wax may not offer optimum grip on warm snow, but it is still offering some grip.

My older ski buddies claim that with Polar wax applied to the entire base of a wooden ski, one could get away with an entire color colder than on a kick-waxed p-tex base for kick wax- in the kick zone- when touring. I am getting the same results with Polar on the entire p-tex base.

I think that race-performance waxing has been informing all grip waxing for some time. From a race-performance point of view, the ideal is the perfect kick wax, in the kick zone only- with the perfect glide wax everywhere else.

From a touring perspective- where maximum K&G performance is not important- as long as the wax is not too soft for the snow- it will still glide. I discovered many years ago that- long before I move to a softer wax- extend the hard wax forwards on to the tip.

I still watch performance-obsessed XC track skiers looking on with horror as I grip-wax the tips of my track touring skis- as they fiddle with getting their kick wax just perfect in their micro-measured kick zone- meanwhile I am kilometers down the track ahead of them in no time...

My Dad- who is from industrial south Wales- and had never even seen a ski before he immigrated to Quebec in 1970- was taught by the locals to grip wax the entire base of his touring skis. I did the same- but I do remember being made fun of for doing so when I went to university in the early 90s...

So- it definitely works. Will you win a world cup race? No- but WTF cares? Nordic touring is not a race.

What I am finding is that- at least when it comes to touring- the more I leave glide wax out of the recipe, the better.

What I am trying to decide now is whether base binder is worth it...If your wax and binder were scraped off in a mere 3 hours on abrasive snow- is it really worth it? With a double-cambered ski it is probably worth it in the kick zone, as it is off the snow during the glide phase. But, is it worth it on a less cambered ski, where the kick zone is often dragging on the snow?
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lilcliffy

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby lilcliffy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 pm

Woodserson wrote:
lilcliffy wrote:
Do they have a track groove?



Is this important anymore?

I sent an email to Asnes for some clarification on the FT62 vs. FT68- and, specifically the function of the track groove!
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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby Woodserson » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:52 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Woodserson wrote:
lilcliffy wrote:
Do they have a track groove?



Is this important anymore?

I sent an email to Asnes for some clarification on the FT62 vs. FT68- and, specifically the function of the track groove!


Awesome!

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby Woodserson » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:00 pm

fisheater wrote:
I still watch performance-obsessed XC track skiers looking on with horror as I grip-wax the tips of my track touring skis- as they fiddle with getting their kick wax just perfect in their micro-measured kick zone- meanwhile I am kilometers down the track ahead of them in no time...



Incredulously, this actually happens to me on a quasi regular basis. I use the three basic toko grip waxes on the woodies which are polar glide-waxed for the length. Often I am gliding right by or meeting other racy skiers who then are complaining about their wax choices. OK FINE, but:

So many people on the general-skier level have retrograded to non-wax skis and then retrograde further to snowshoes, when a simple wax system is far and beyond the way to go. The act of waxing has taken on a mythos of an eternal struggle of the hapless skier pitting his alchemy against the mystical snow gods, when is should be furthest from the truth! It is a classic illustration of the power of the racing elite to set the tone to the hoi polloi which ends up frustrating them from partaking in such sports. I see it in bicycles all the time. No, your ass doesn't need to be 18" above the handlebars to get your groceries, and you don't need special shoes or clothes to ride a bike, and you certainly don't NEED a carbon fiber saddle.

It's disappointing. And it hurts the sport.

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby fisheater » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:03 pm

We had about 6" after a hard rain. The forecast called for rising temperatures the next afternoon. I have a building going under some redesigning, so I am not too busy right now. Unlike over Christmas when we had cold and snow. I decided to come in late that morning with 6" of fresh, wet to dry snow (started as rain, got cold). This is a nice trail breaking ski. I have had it in deeper snow, but not for miles. the snow varied from not enough to about 10". This would not be the conditions I would ordinarily take this ski out in. I knew it was not deep enough for turns, though I did get a few in. The whole purpose was to get a feel for how this ski tours. This ski is made to tour in soft snow. The flex is perfect, the tip comes to the surface, but in an arc. The ski follows the tip, and it is very solid underfoot. This ski is a pleasure to break trail in. This is what I wanted when I bought the S-112.
I will try to explain what this ski feels like in soft snow. When you kick forward the tip on the leading ski arcs and planes to the top, the ski feels solid underfoot and it feels like you are planing on the shovel and sliding on the heel. As the slide slows you feel the ski flex under the foot you are about to kick off of, it is subtle, but instead of that heel slide weighting, now the ski feels solid under the ball of the foot. Now kick forward of the foot and the process repeats. If I had a complaint, it would be I wish it had an old style tip. I have had it in a foot, both some turns and some very short kicks back to a lift, and while I wish I had more miles in that 12" it was a pleasure both on the up and down.
When I first started looking for this ski, I was clear what I was looking for. I wanted a ski that would be fun to tour in hill country with the emphasis on seeking turns. I also wanted a ski to ski my Michigan resorts in leather boots. I am very happy with this ski for both duties. This ski could be better on ice at the resort. It drags a little in the wax pocket kicking on hard packed trails. It is far better on resort snow than the S-112, it is far better on the trail than the S-112. There may be a deep snow condition going downhill were the s-112 may be better, but I really don't think getting to the turns would be better on the S-112. It just does not have that flex, that was engineered for kicking in soft snow.
This review isn't meant to denigrate the S-bound skis. Heck this ski is different than I thought it would be. I was picturing something more of a camber and a half. I now think it is more of a skinny Vector / Objective. I will say though, if you are considering a e-88 or a S-98, you should really consider this ski. They are less expensive, and much easier to purchase, but if this ski is in your budget you will be very pleased. Well, I do have a USGI, so perhaps there may be conditions where having an E-88 may be better, but not if you have that USGI also.
I am still waiting for Lilcliffy's review of the Storetind. It may really the better of the two skis, but I can honestly say I am very pleased with my purchase. Buying a ski with very little to go on is a gamble, I feel very fortunate my purchase has worked out this well. I will close by saying this ski pairs very well with my Ski March boots and the 3-pin cable binding I mounted on it.

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby HBS » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:14 pm

Turns out Neptune carries the FT 68 - but at ~$530 a pair it's not going to happen this year. Maybe next winter!

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby lilcliffy » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:08 am

Damn the weak $CAN- that is actually a very good price for a FT68. I paid that much for my Storetinds on clearance!

Neptune's website is still a mess- I cannot find the FT68 on it.

HBS- you interested in the FT for its extra flotation over the Nansen- or, is it the downhill performance?
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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby fisheater » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:52 pm

I paid that much for my FT 62's after my US dollars were converted to Euros, then I paid for a plane ride over to the States from Germany. Then I bought my bindings and skins from Neptune. I am looking forward to Gareth's Storetind review, you probably will be better off going with the FT 68. I am very happy with my FT 62, however I was looking for a ski that would be fun for touring for turns in rolling terrain. Asnes classifies the FT 62 as a backcountry ski, and recommends a 75 mm binding. I followed Asnes recommendations and am quite pleased. After skiing the FT 62, which does everything I hoped for, but in a manner I didn't expect. I presume the FT 68 would not give up much touring performance, but offer even better downhill performance. However on the downhill the FT 68 might not be such a great match for my leather boots.

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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:55 am

fisheater wrote:I paid that much for my FT 62's after my US dollars were converted to Euros, then I paid for a plane ride over to the States from Germany.

Yeah it seems the only way to get a deal at SportAlbert is to get a package deal- skis, boots and bindings...

I presume the FT 68 would not give up much touring performance, but offer even better downhill performance. However on the downhill the FT 68 might not be such a great match for my leather boots.

Obviously, I cannot personally speak for the FT62- but, Asnes certainly claims that the FT62 is better tuned for more traditional Nordic touring (i.e. backcountry-cross country)- offering exceptional downhill performance for a "xcountry" ski.

What I can say about the Storetind/FT 68- although it offers pretty decent XC performance on fresh backcountry snow- it is a VERY turny ski and is literally all over the place when XC skiing on dense/ consolidated snow. The ST/FT68 wants to turn- period.

Asnes describes the FT62 as a turn-oriented XC ski- the ST/FT68 as a hybrid between a Nordic touring ski and an Alpine touring sk (fjellski x toppturski).

The ST has a remarkably stable flex- even with all of that tip rocker- it offers excellent XC performance on fresh BC snow- but all of that sidecut, plus the extended Nordic rocker make it extremely squirrelly when XC skiing on dense consolidated snow.

At only 68mm waist I can completely overpower the ST with my T4s and the 3-pin hardwire binding. I took the ST down some ridiculously steep ravines with my T4s this week.

I have only been out on the ST with my leather boots once- the snow was ideal and, they felt great (the ST is quite light). But- I would not feel comfortable pushing the ST on very steep terrain and difficult snow without my T4s and the cable if I need it.

For comparison- I can drive the Annum and the Epoch with my very soft Alpina Alaskas- but, only on moderate terrain and ideal BC snow- I cannot overpower these skis with the Alaska. But, the Epoch and the Annum do not offer the stability and torsional rigidity of a ski like the ST/FT68- with the ST, I can ski down terrain and snow that I would not even try with my Annums/Epochs (at least not at my age anymore! :oops: )

At only 62mm waist I would personally lean to mounting NNNBC on the FT62- I doubt I would ever want the cable with that ski- and, the T4 seems overkill...

Bob- have you tried the T4 on the FT62 or just your leather Ski March? Are you using the cable or just in 3-pin mode?
Gareth
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Re: Falketind 62 Review

Postby fisheater » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:16 pm

lilcliffy wrote:(at least not at my age anymore! :oops: )

At only 62mm waist I would personally lean to mounting NNNBC on the FT62- I doubt I would ever want the cable with that ski- and, the T4 seems overkill...

Bob- have you tried the T4 on the FT62 or just your leather Ski March? Are you using the cable or just in 3-pin mode?
Gareth


Gareth, I have ten years on you, I believe it is only common sense that keeps you from pushing the envelope, not "old bones". I do ski the FT 62 at the resort with the cables. I skied one morning in about 12" of fresh, that turned into 12" of chopped on a shiny hard base. I actually had the boot soles of the Ski Marches torqueing back and forth even with the cables (back foot). I probably should have put on the T-4's, but I persevered, eventually not getting tossed around so much. Next time I should try out the T-4 with the cable and try skiing the FT 62 with the T-4. I have only skied the T-4 with pins, or pins and Hardwire.
I really do not ski enough, if I did, I would have skied the FT-62 with the T-4. I can't comment on skiing the FT-62 nnn-BC either. I get the feeling it is much softer than the ST/FT 68, but I can still ski the black diamonds with the FT-62 with leathers and cables. My resort skiing is really improving with this ski, I am not close to where I once was, but I feel confident setting an edge with this ski. It does not bail me out, if I miss my rear foot. However if I miss a rear foot and slide, all that rocker allows me to rotate that rear foot and then I am on edge.
Perhaps being a bit softer makes the the FT 62 a little less snakey on hard packed trails? While more camber might keep the wax pocket off the snow, the ski seems to like to glide on the heel. I really still see this as a tour for turns ski, I am comfortable turning on 75mm.


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