Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

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bgregoire
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by bgregoire » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:45 pm

lilcliffy wrote: And the boot has some sort of re-inforcement underneath the leather- below the ankle that makes them much more laterally supportive than the Alaska- even without the upper cuff.
That's gotta be this:
56px-h-board-lasting_1457205900.png
No?
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lilcliffy
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:15 pm

HA!

Well, that makes sense!
Yes- that is exactly what it is.
.........
I am hard-wired to be an intuitive, deep-thinking person- to a fault at times.
Sometimes I am not very observant!
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lilcliffy
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:53 pm

Some success today.

Thicker insole and double socks:
1) Slim, tight-fitting wool sock.
2) Thick tight-fitting wool hiking sock on top.

Still a bit of heel lift- but no blisters!!!

I have realized that the problem a major problem for me with this boot is that there is no shape/contouring to the heel and Achilles section of the boot. They are completely open and straight from the heel to the top...This may be okay for some feet- but not for mine.

My Alpina Alaska and Alfa Kikut both have a shapes/contoured heel. There is no heel-lift in either of these boots despite the large volume for my small-volume feet...

This has led me to investigate a number of my boots...

All of the boots that I love have a shaped/contoured heel...
..............

Regardless- I am MUCH happier with these boots now!!!

Excellent XC stride.
Impressive downhill stability.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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bgregoire
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by bgregoire » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:50 pm

lilcliffy wrote: Regardless- I am MUCH happier with these boots now!!!

Excellent XC stride.
Impressive downhill stability.
LC, this small uber positive comment is very different than your initial extensive review (I mean, what else are we looking for in a versatile XCD boot than good stride and DH stability)! Has your opinion of the boot changed significantly? IMO, it would be a shame not to EDIT you initial post (or at least mention something there to the effect that your mind has changed and that the reader must read-on to get the full picture) and better showcase the potential of this boot.

As for the fit issue, I am of the opinion leather boots like these will conform to the shape of your heels with time, unlike a pre-molded plastic Alfa-type heel cap. Don't you reckon?

Design wise, one odd thing I have noted is that in most other leather boots with an instep strap (Alico Teletour, Andrew Zenith, Crispi Lofoten 75mm), the strap actually replaces the deeper instep hook and aims right into the instep (see image below) whereas in the Crispi Svartisen (boths soles) and the Crispi Lofoten BC, both are there, and from the pictures, they appear to aim just a little above and below (dorsum?) the instep. Is that right? What do you make of that?
Visible-Foot.png
By the way, the in-step strap on my Teletours is awesome (I wish they still made these). It completely and drastically changes the boots performance. Then again, its tongue is surely more substantial than on the Svartisen.

Ski strong and long, be happy!
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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lilcliffy
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:47 pm

Hi Ben,
You are right- my opinion/perspective on this boot has perhaps changed a bit...

I am still having fit issues with it- and, in general am not finding them "comfortable".
I have been doing some very long, very demanding xcd tours in the hills and ravines of the Upper Nashwaak the last few weeks. The most demanding of which was last Sunday and I decided to take my Alaskas- instead of the Svartisen- despite plotting some very steep downhill terrrain...

I took the Alaska because I was genuinely anxious about pain, caused by pressure points in the Svartisen...

The Svartisen truly does offer an amazing combination of XC and downhill performance, and the build-quality is second to none. I am determined to keep working with this boot to get a more comfortable fit.

All of that being said- it was a good opportunity to re-experience the Alaska on a very demanding tour. Does the Svartisen offer more downhill stability? Yes it does- but not to a massive degree. Its not like the Svartisen offer the stability of a T4/Excursion boot- or even a very stiff supportive leather Telemark boot.

I was actually very comfortable, very happy, and very confident on steep terrain with my Alaska- and they were pure magic crushing miles while breaking trail through very deep soft snow...

BTW- my 5+ year-old Alaska has about the same sole stiffness of my new Svartisen. And- I think- the Alaska sole is torsionally stiffer than the Svartisen. I kinda doubt that I will be as happy with the striding performance of the Svartisen after as many miles as I have put on the Alaska.

Personally- I see the Svartisen in the same boot-class as the Alaska: heavy-duty, demanding, backcountry Nordic striding. The Svartisen does offer more lateral ankle and calf support.

The question on the "instep" strap is a good one. What I can tell you is that it articulates and I tend to make sure that it is positioned over my instep after I have laced them up.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by fisheater » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:03 pm

Gareth, I certainly wish you well in adapting to your fit issues with the Svartisen. As I still have no experience on NNN boots (snow is coming) I can only surmise things about NNN. My ankle high, heavy Ski March boots secure my foot very securely to a stiff leather sole. There is very little ankle support, however it is the stiff sole that allows substantial turning power with this boot. Because the sole is so stiff, further ankle support would greatly inhibit the boot's kick and glide faculties. My new Alaska has much more ankle support. I look forward to learning what kind of turning power I will unlock in that Alaska sole, but I cannot fathom how more ankle support will help me turn skis.
I may be missing something, I freely admit that I believe that the sole of the Merril Super Comp is the weak link. You can have all the cuff in the world, but if the sole torques, the ski will be torqued with it. My personal belief is that if you stay centered on top of the ski, and have good two footed technique, the limiting factor is if the boot sole is powerful enough to control the ski. Once the ski controls the boot you must be a very skilled operator indeed.
So I guess after my preamble, my question is, is there a benefit to that exoskeleton? Mike K didn't convince me that there was. I just don't see what I am missing. Oh, is it more supportive than the Alaska? Does that support negativity affect k&g ?
Good luck, and have you considered this ankle molds that Johnny installed in the Super Watermelon Boots?
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2143

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lilcliffy
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:02 pm

fisheater wrote:There is very little ankle support, however it is the stiff sole that allows substantial turning power with this boot.
Yes- agree- that is one of my concerns with the Svartisen- that it will be too soft after it is broken in.
My new Alaska has much more ankle support.
I suppose that is true- hadn't thought of it before- the Alaska does lace up higher than the Ski March.
I look forward to learning what kind of turning power I will unlock in that Alaska sole, but I cannot fathom how more ankle support will help me turn skis.
Depending on the technique of course- greater ankle support primarily increases the skiers stability- again depends on what kind of turn we are talking about- and the technique associated with it...
I may be missing something, I freely admit that I believe that the sole of the Merril Super Comp is the weak link.
I don't own a pair of Super Comps anymore- 20 years ago now (!)- but I remember that my Super Comps had a very stiff sole- at least as stiff, if not stiffer than my Ski March...
You can have all the cuff in the world, but if the sole torques, the ski will be torqued with it.
Agree. Did you ever read Gamme's review of BC Nordic touring boots on the UTE site? His perspective is that sole stiffness- especially lateral stiffness- is the number one variable determining the stability and power-transfer of a Nordic touring boot...I agree. I love my Alaska boot. (I also love the Ski March- the fit is improving. I fear that I may have ordered the "wide" last without realizing it was an option?)
So I guess after my preamble, my question is, is there a benefit to that exoskeleton?
There is a benefit- it is stability. And that stability does make a big difference if I am skiing steep tight lines with long XC skis. The additional ankle support gives much-appreciated stability to make step, striding and jump turns on steep terrain.
Oh, is it more supportive than the Alaska? Does that support negativity affect k&g ?
It is more supportive than the Alaska from the ankle up do the cuff. The cuff does not negatively affect K&G and can be very quickly adjusted- let out for XC skiing and clmibing- tightened up for the downhill.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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lilcliffy
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:48 pm

bgregoire wrote: As for the fit issue, I am of the opinion leather boots like these will conform to the shape of your heels with time, unlike a pre-molded plastic Alfa-type heel cap. Don't you reckon?
The Svartisen has a rigid plastic heel cap over the leather- this boot is not going to conform to the shape of my heel, unfortunately!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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lilcliffy
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Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:54 pm

This is an interesting boot.

Regardless of my initial challenges with getting a good fit- this boot is clearly designed for the XC skier that wants to XC ski- on XC skis- in hilly/mountainous terrain.

Its interesting- this boot actually does not have a powerful sole-flex of a boot like the Alaska BC. Its sole flex is designed purely for XC skiing.

This boot has impressive ankle support- without compromising XC striding.

Where I really notice the advantage of the ankle support is not when I am making open linked turns.
Where I appreciate the ankle support is when I want to ski a tight line down a narrow trail or through dense forest.
This boot was made for making striding, step and jump turns on long XC skis!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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lilcliffy
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Re: Boot Review: 2018 Crispi Svartisen BC

Post by lilcliffy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:02 pm

I have discovered the primary source of pain and discomfort with this boot as I break them in.
There is a rigid and very hard plastic heel cap on this boot that is fully-sewn into the full-grain leather.
This stitched edge is VERY hard and produces a rock hard ridge around the heel of the boot. As I break the boots in I notice that there is VERY little padding and material cushioning and protecting the heel from this stitched ridge.

This ridge on the heel is the primary source of my pain and discomfort wth this boot. And- as they get more broke in it is getting worse- the inner lining is packing out and what little cushioning there was out of the box is doing little to nothing...

Had them out on my Gammes for 10k early this morning and I was in considerable pain by the end of it.
I have to come up with some way of protecting my heels...Working on it.

I won't be doing any serious skiing in this boot again until I resolve this...I am going to end up with Achilles tendonitis otherwise...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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