The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

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lilcliffy
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby lilcliffy » Sun May 17, 2015 1:33 pm

Just a product testing update...

I recently realized that the S-Bounds I have tested in recent years are NOT the latest models with the much-improved waxless bases.

So- I wouldn't put much weight on my traction/climbing comparisons between waxless Fischer S-Bounds and Madshus XCD skis.

Fischer seems committed to continuously improving the S-Bound line.

Madshus has not been updating the XCD line (e.g. Eon, Epoch, Annum)- I do not get the impression that there is any immediate plans to do so. The product development of this line of skis seems to have temporarily ended with the demise of Karhu skis.
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MikeK
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby MikeK » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:44 pm

MikeK wrote:Very strange - Eon has 4cm of undeflected camber (base to base total) and the Epoch we own has 4.5cm!

I wonder if I have a defective pair of Eons?


New Eons are in. Everything looks the same except on the tops they don't have the marks for pin location.

Flex is radically different. It's like the S78... light double camber it feels and looks like. Undeflected camber is 4.75cm (total base to base).

I did the old paper test with a bunch of my skis to check something. The only skis that I could slide the paper out from with my weight 50/50 on the skis was the Glittertind and the E89 (I suspect the Voss would have too but I just shipped those off). So the skis I knew had a true double camber passed the test.

All the others went flat with me 50/50 on them.

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lilcliffy
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:49 am

Your new Eons are like all of ours- more cambered than the Epoch- and a bit stiffer- hence the "camber-and-a-half" attribute. Still- a ski designed for soft, fresh snow.

(I feel a E109 in my future...waiting for a spring deal. In the meantime I've got 210cm Asnes Combat skis setup with NNNBC-mags- excited to try them on some dense base!)

I have a feeling I am going to be on a lot of dense snow this winter...smells like a Nova Scotia winter in the air- yuck!

It will be cool what conclusions you come up with the Eon vs. S-78.
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MikeK
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby MikeK » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:59 am

I think they (S78 and Eon) are going to be more similar that I thought.

Despite my 'soft' pair of Eons. I don't think the performance will be much different. Hand flexing they feel stiffer, to my feet, the difference should be much less as I can exert more force. Half my weight (100lbs) makes either go dead flat, so that should give the same gliding and turning performance.

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lilcliffy
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:14 am

Yeah- no matter the design intent- if the wax/traction pocket completely flattens out with only half your weight on it- it's going to behave like a single-cambered ski- at least during K&G xcountry skiing.

My 205cm Eons give me a much better traction pocket than my wife's 195cm pair- the flex is the same.

I am happy they are still making the Eon at 205cm- to me it would not be a mistake to make a 215cm Eon (like Asnes does). For full-sized adults that want long-distance performance in a single-cambered XCD ski- you need enough length- for glide, flotation and efficient K&G.

Even the stiffest double-cambered skis will not have an effective wax/traction pocket if they are too short for the weight of the skier.

I applaud Asnes for continuing to make long XCD skis- they are fortunate to have access to their local market of Nordic skiers!

Long single-cambered are the ultimate for long-distance touring on fresh snow- enough length for efficient glide, float, and K&G- soft enough flex to turn downhill.

Everybody is obsessed with "easy-turnin" skis these days. I meet xcountry skiers all the time- that never ski on steep terrain- that recently bought short "off-track" skis, because they were told they are easy to turn.

I love the challenge of turning my 205cm skis (they actually make thrilling open stride-turns)- and they kick ass on the flats.
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lilcliffy
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:40 am

MikeK wrote:I think they (S78 and Eon) are going to be more similar that I thought.

Despite my 'soft' pair of Eons. I don't think the performance will be much different. Hand flexing they feel stiffer, to my feet, the difference should be much less as I can exert more force. Half my weight (100lbs) makes either go dead flat, so that should give the same gliding and turning performance.


That bit of extra stiffness may actually make a bigger difference on the downhill, than xcountry skiing...

IME, that bit of extra stiffness that all of the S-Bounds have, over the Madshus XCDs, makes the biggest difference in turn transitions. It gives the spring, or "pop" that is the foundation of Alpine ski design and technique on hard/dense/groomed snow.

(It is interesting that classic XCD skiers- like SB- don't talk about this all that much- perhaps a function of them initially downhill skiing on double-cambered skis? The "pop" is always there with a double-cambered ski- you have to deliberately flatten out the camber (I personally call it "fighting with double camber"))

Downhill "snap" doesn't make that much of a difference to me in my XCD setups- my turn initiations/completions have become based on completely transferring weight from one ski to the other- and lifting the unweighted skis into position. In short- my technique doesn't really benefit from the "pop".

But- if a skier is using a lot of different turning techniques- that extra spring/pop in turns is a huge advantage- especially on dense/hard/groomed snow.

I agree with you- I would think that the similar camber in both the Eon and the S-78 should produce similar K&G performance. BUT- I do predict that you will find the bit of extra stiffness in the S-78 will give your K&G more snap, than the Eon on dense snow. It does take some technical skill to take advantage of this however.

That bit of extra snap is my experience with the S-Bounds versus the Madshus XCDs.

BUT- in fresh, soft snow...it will be interesting what you think. As you already pointed out (Epoch vs. S-98)- they both have open "Nordic-rockered" tips. IME, the softer flex of the Madshus XCDs gives outstanding performance in soft fresh snow. Even my Annums feel snappy and glidey in the ideal snow conditions for it- deep soft snow.
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MikeK
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby MikeK » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:03 am

Oh I agree 100%. Stiffness gives them them the pop. Unfortunately in my turning I'm not advanced enough to use this energy to dynamically unweight the skis and pop them into the next turn. I can do it with Alpine gear, so I know what you mean.

I can, however, extract that pop on the K+G. Madshus skis feel dead to me. But it's fine, they still ski great in deep snow. I only really notice this when I'm skiing in a broken out track.

Either feel good in powder. I suppose if it was soft and deep enough, there would be a huge advantage to having a softer ski to keep your weight more evenly distributed and less off on the tips and tails. I've yet to find that snow in NY state :lol:

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MikeK
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby MikeK » Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:55 pm

Image

An update, not from me, but from my wife. She had her first ski on the Eons today and I noted her impressions.

Unlike some, I like ALL feedback from different skier and different skill levels. My wife has the least experience with XC and DH of anyone I know that skis BC Nordic or XCD.

Some background but she had been skiing on either Epochs or Glittertinds, and before that E99s.

I decided I would mount these up with the pin line the same as the pivot line I have on my Eons. I liked the way they handle and despite her smaller boot, I though she'd like them that way. IIRC it's +1cm from chord.

Her skis are mounted with Rotte ST pin bindings as all her boots are pin boots. She feels most comfortable with this system so I've not tried to deter her from what she likes. She'll decide in time if she wants to try something different.

Anyway she was really impressed with the skis. I told her they should be right in between her other two in terms of performance and her length is kind of in between the other two. The Eons are 195, the Epoch and Glitt, 200 and 185 respectively.

She thought the glide on them was excellent and did quite well on the downs. At one point today we skied down a closed road and she was turning them back and forth nearly parallel with little effort. The surface was really smooth and a bit icy underneath, so they don't quite handle that way in BC conditions, but she did well there as well.

She tested them with her Crispi Svartisen boots, and I expect she'll ski the Eon with these boots all the time.

Her one complaint was the same as mine. "They are damn slippery." Yeah, in certain snow they just don't seem to grip very well. We were on that snow today. Seems whenever it is slightly granular or cold, the Eon struggles (the Epoch struggles too, same pattern, but slightly less due to more width under foot).

Her comment regarding this was, "Man I wish they climbed like my Glitts!" Not often you hear someone say a narrower, DC ski grips better than a wider, "1.5" camber ski. I agree with her 100%. I've skied both quite a bit and the Glitt grips better. It's a different pattern than the Eon, Epoch and Annum. And it seems to work better in the snow in NY.

I'm going to pay careful attention to how the S78 performs compared to the Eon in this respect. If it's a better climber and has no other bad traits, I'm going to switch her over. So far the only issue I've had with S78 and grip on really icy, refrozen stuff. And it still held up pretty good. And maybe even we forgo the waxless and go for wax for this width ski class. Although today I would have been concerned. Started off 22°F and ended at 33°F 3.5hrs later. Typical NY, even in the mountains.

Overall her impression was they were her favorite skis so far. "They seem to do everything well compared to the other two, other than the grip." I think if we find a ski that grips really well in this width, shape, weight; we'll have an all around workhorse winner.

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lilcliffy
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:24 pm

I'll be very keen to hear of a comparison test between the waxless traction of the Eon vs. the S-78.

The traction zone of the S-78 is much longer and further forward isn't it?

That should make a big difference in climbing alone...

I find the "Omnitrack" gives excellent traction on wet, "spring" snow...otherwise it is pretty poor.

Are you frequently skiing on old, re-frozen snow Mike? If so- this may be a real challenge for waxless traction in the first place...

The only other option is Klister or kicker skins- your growing interest in the integrated kicker skin may prove to be just the ticket.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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bgregoire
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Re: The ever-so-popular Madshus Eon

Postby bgregoire » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:10 am

MikeK wrote: I think if we find a ski that grips really well in this width, shape, weight; we'll have an all around workhorse winner.


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