Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

dusan wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:33 am

Hello
I want to buy my first BC skis (but I am doing XC skiing over 10 years) and I also need to decide between Fischer Outback 68-59-64 and Madshus Eon 83-62-70. I know, is quite different ski in sidecut and wide- the reason why is price...
I read a lot in forum about Madshus Eon (some negatives about ascend grip) and I have some experience with Fischer Offtrack crown- I know is very good. IMO the difference is that Fischer use negative (cut into base) fishscale and some other manufacturers use positive (molded in hot base) fishscale.

Fischer no longer uses negative fishscales, they use positive scales, and it is very grippy, very good. The Outback skis very short and is slow. I am also 188cm and 155lbs and I did not like these skis at all, sold them almost immediately.

And what size did you have ?
And if you think Outback is so slow, i don´t think that wider ski (traverse/excursion) will be faster... so what you have now ?

I was on the 189cm.

Speed is a function of length but also camber. The Traverse and Excursion can be the same length and also wider, but with more camber (stiffer flex) the scales don't drag on the snow as much, so they are faster. Both Traverse and Excursion are faster than the Outback. The Outback is an entry level ski for people just getting into the sport and think that XC skiing is "shuffling around."

Where are you located?

For those following this thread, Madshus has made some changes. The Eon (as well as the Epoch and the Annum) seems to be gone. However, there is a new Panorama series of "backcountry downhill skis." The widest of these, the M62, has the same profile as the Eon, 83-62-70. But they differ. The M62 is slightly heavier, approximately 28 gm per ski (both skis I have are 185 cm), and stiffer/more cambered, with its maximum base-to-base gap being 5 cm instead of 3.5 cm on my Eons. The Eon has a shallow central groove, which the M62 lacks. The M62 only seems to come in a waxable version; the Eon came in both waxable and waxless, of which I have the former. The biggest news is that the M62 is fitted for the new Intelligrip Transition Skin. This is similar to Fischer's Easy Skin system. although I prefer Fischer's execution of the idea. I am awaiting the season's first snows to try out the M62s, so no comment on their performance for the moment.

Good stuff! Thank you for the info on the Panorama 62!

Interesting that it is stiffer and more cambered than the Eon, as it is described as having an "Alpine" camber on the Madshus website...How old are your Eons?

Please consider posting a review on this ski once you have had a chance to put them through their paces!

So- the XCD GT/10th Mtn/Guide are all finally dead!

lilcliffy wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:12 pm

Good stuff! Thank you for the info on the Panorama 62!

Interesting that it is stiffer and more cambered than the Eon, as it is described as having an "Alpine" camber on the Madshus website...How old are your Eons?

My Eons are from 2011. I suspect that the only change thereafter, until the Panorama, is to the color of the top sheet.

So- the XCD GT/10th Mtn/Guide are all finally dead!

I'm not sure. They, or descendants, seem to have disappeared from Madshus' website. Vendors, however, are selling some of them, possibly older stock. Those needing a replacement for their Epochs and Annums should probably not wait too long.

Please give us a review of the new Panorama when you get a chance to put them through their paces- and please give us a comparison to the Eon/XCD GT.

Well I have I new pair of the Panorama M62's and I measure the unflexed camber at 3.6-3.7cm. It would be great if others would chime in! Did I get a soft set!?

@wabene
Some thoughts-
- wondering whether this might be less cofusing if your wrote a review of the M62, or posted in the main Forum to discuss it vs the Eon- as well as the soon-to-be-sold 2021 M62 which has gone back to the Omnitrack base and lost the kicker skin insert-
- there are a couple of threads in the main forum regarding the M62 you are speaking of. Rodbelan's recent reports confirm that it is heavier than the Eon and I think he says that his set have less camber than the Eon (if I remember that correctly)

On the subject of a softer pair- my limited experience is that camber height and softness/stiffness and flex pattern are all different dimensions of a ski's geometry and flex.

I have a number of skis that have relatively high camber but are not stiff- for comparisons:
- both of the Annums we have here are more cambered than either of my Ingstad BCs- despite the fact that the Annum is very soft, single-cambred and round-flexing- while the Ingstad may be low-cambered but it is stiff and resistant underfoot
- the E109 Xtralite and the Eon are more cambered than the Ingstad, but the E109 and Ingstad have similar stiff resistance underfoot, while the Eon is MUCH softer in that dimension
- the E99 Xtralite has a higher initial camber underfoot than the Gamme 54 but they are both VERY stiff and resistant underfoot- the E99 having a soft and flexible shovel and tail- the Gamme being very longitudinally stiff
- the Fischer 78/88 have a high camber and are longitudinally moderately stiff and lack the noticably stiff resistanvce underfoot of the skis noted above

Sorry to be long-winded about this, but I wouldn't assume that your M62 is softer than others, just because it is less cambered...
Hope I am being helpful here...