Asnes USGI Combat Skis

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fisheater

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby fisheater » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:09 pm

I am getting ready to mount a pair of my USGI's. I think the only post regarding mounting was pins on balance point from Lilcliffy. He mentioned that position was best for climbing and kick and glide. That sounds like what I would be looking for. One of my favorite places to ski are some bridle (horse) trails near home. The trails are too narrow and hoof worn to herring bone, I need to half herring bone it up two hills, so grip is important. Being a complete novice at waxing my thought is to iron in at least 3 layers of VG 35 base binder the full length of the ski, then figure out the rest when we have snow, and I can get free. I hope both happen soon! BTW I only have 200 cm skis, I ordered two pair and they had to be the same size, so I went 200 so my son could have a pair. Since then I came to my senses and bought him a pair of Alpina Discovery 70"s in an appropriate size. I am thinking of mounting them at the balance point as well. He is still stem turning alpine skis, so I need not worry about easy turning. He should make a powerful wedge with the Ski March boots!
I don't know if it matters, but I will be mounting Voile 3-pins, I have the cable, but it will probably live happily in my camel back. I am also not as concerned about turns as I am about grip and glide. I would like to glide better than I do on my S-112's, but I also want to learn how to get grip with wax. As for turns, I am not trying to tree ski with these skis. I am sure I can turn them if I point them down the hill and step into the turn, there's enough lard in my butt to make them flex on edge.

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lilcliffy

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby lilcliffy » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:21 pm

Hey man,

When it comes to my backcountry-xcountry kits, I have always mounted pins/toe bar on balance point.

Xcountry skiers have been making adjustments to this for a long time.

In general for "Classic" kick&glide technique:
1) Moving the binding forward of balance point will give more grip.
2) Moving the binding rear of balance point will give more glide.

Traditionally, racers had a very large quiver including modified mounting points. The NIS system allows for the binding to be moved continuously on one ski.

In the backcountry:

In general, if my focus is on XC performance I would mount on balance point.

But many backcountry skiers looking for a bit more downhill steering power have traditionally mounted on chord center. (All of my 3-pin kits are mounted on chord center).

I mounted NNN-BC on these skis. To date-as most of my NNN-BC kits are intended to maximize XC performance- I have mounted NNN-BC on balance point.

Every ski can be different though. As a strange example- UTE magazine's test of the Asnes Nansen recommends mounting rear of balance point due to the position of the wax pocket:
http://www.utemagasinet.no/Utstyr/TEST-Ski-for-fjellet

My pair of Combats have a full-length, balanced, round camber- the wax pocket is directly below the balance point.
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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby MikeK » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:12 pm

I mounted my 200s on balance - I could tele them in a few inches of snow over a base. They aren't turny, but they are turnable. Expect to skid that front ski a bit to tell them where you want to go. I think they'd be atrocious to handle on a harder snow and probably equally as resistant in deep snow just due to their stiffness.

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby connyro » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:50 am

I mounted my 210s with NNN-BC on the balance point. I use this setup for fast, long touring in rugged terrain and deep snow. They turn pretty well considering the setup but for more DH-oriented touring, I use a different setup.

lilcliffy wrote:My pair of Combats have a full-length, balanced, round camber- the wax pocket is directly below the balance point.


This is my experience as well.

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

fisheater wrote:my thought is to iron in at least 3 layers of VG 35 base binder the full length of the ski,


Meant to respond to this.

Why would you apply base binder to the entire base of the ski?
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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby fisheater » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:03 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
fisheater wrote:my thought is to iron in at least 3 layers of VG 35 base binder the full length of the ski,


Meant to respond to this.

Why would you apply base binder to the entire base of the ski?


I read Dave's Backcountry Ski page. He mentioned that base wax glides nicely, and that kick wax does not stick to regular glide wax. He also mentioned that he waxed full length of ski frequently. I don't know a thing about kick wax, but I know I need grip. I also assume that the USGI will still glide better than a S-112 even with full length wax. I have not converted the cold side rating of -28 C to Fahrenheit, but I am guessing it is pretty cold. So for positive grip, and the fact I like wax (glide) on my skis, I thought it may be a good idea to start out with full length base wax.
Even though I also purchase four grip waxes to allow for decent temperature range, I found Rex Green grip wax at Asker's. I was thinking of really keeping it simple and ordering a tin of Rex green. Unless it is above freezing that wax also has a large range. I figure if I slip, I can add a layer. I am just trying to keep this wax thing simple, as I get a feel for it, then I can get more into waxology. I want to concentrate on K&G technique, and do not want to slip too much. I can make turns , I want to get better at going straight.
I keep it pretty simple with glide wax as well. I keep a stick of polar green around, and some warm weather wax as well, but 90 % of the time I wax with Toko red. My stash is running low, I will have to go shopping on Ebay soon.

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby MikeK » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:19 am

I just did the middle third per the Swix instructions. Roughed up with sandpaper and ironed in some blue kick wax. Hot wax tips and tails with glide wax just like a waxless ski.

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby fisheater » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:44 pm

MikeK wrote:I just did the middle third per the Swix instructions. Roughed up with sandpaper and ironed in some blue kick wax. Hot wax tips and tails with glide wax just like a waxless ski.


I remember reading that, but I also remember your not so enthusiastic review. Since I do not have any Eon class skis, I will not be disappointed in that comparison, if they do not glide better than a S-112, or they slip all over I would be disappointed. Based on other reviews. I think the disappoint would be with the skier rather than the ski

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby MikeK » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:07 pm

Yeah they were unwieldy and I really had some issues getting them to grip in packed down snow, but I'm comparing to a lot of other modern skis which do everything really well. I don't think it had anything to do with my base treatment.

As far as glide, they went along fine. Not quite as quick as I hoped they would be, but I'm using a 200 and should be using a 210 to really get the best out of them.

They glide better than my S98s, but then again, so do the Eons. Nothing climbs like those skis though, so I wouldn't count on that unless you are sticking.

Waxing is hard. I'm not going to lie there. A better waxer probably could have done better, but I'm also remembering my previous pair of wax skis, and I never had much issue climbing with those.

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Re: Asnes USGI Combat Skis

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:21 am

fisheater wrote:my thought is to iron in at least 3 layers of VG 35 base binder the full length of the ski,

I read Dave's Backcountry Ski page. He mentioned that base wax glides nicely, and that kick wax does not stick to regular glide wax. He also mentioned that he waxed full length of ski frequently. I don't know a thing about kick wax, but I know I need grip.


Base binder is designed to be ironed into the base, and then grip/kick wax and/or klister corked in on top of the base binder. In my limited experience, base binder is typically only applied in the kick zone (i.e. wax pocket) of the ski. If you ironed-in base binder to the entire base- you would then want to cork in grip/kick wax to the entire base- on top of the base binder.

Now, some backcountry skiers do in fact iron in a very hard (i.e. very "cold") grip wax to the entire base- when the snow is warmer, it is very hard and performs like a glide wax- when the snow is very cold the entire base has grip. In this scenario, you would still need to cork in a softer wax/klister when the snow is too warm for the hard wax. (I have no experience with this- but I do know that this is a common approach with wood-based skis. I have been interested in the idea of applying a very hard grip wax (e.g. Swix Polar) to an entire p-tex base- haven't tried it yet- in this context, it might make sense to first apply a base binder to the entire base).

I do not use base binder very often- but I have used it when the snow is extremely abrasive, constantly scraping off my grip wax/klister.

On an everyday basis, I find that grip wax sticks to hard glide wax just fine! But- this may be due to having "good" snow conditions to ski on...I have lived in winter climates where the snow is often abrasive, and I have applied base binder to the kick zone.

Currently- I iron in glide wax to the ENTIRE base of all my waxable skis (and to the tip/tails of my waxless skis). I cork in grip/kick wax and/or klister into the kick zone. If I need extra grip I follow this approach:

1) I begin by extending the current grip wax forwards. (Conventional XC wisdom would be to cork in a thin layer of a softer kick wax on top of the harder grip wax- ONLY in the kick zone. It is important to remember that serious XC skiers are obsessed with performance, and would avoid putting grip wax on the glide zone.) As I primarily backcountry ski on fresh snow, I am VERY reluctant to add a softer wax- if the snow is too cold, it will stick to the softer wax and then I am forced to remove it! I only move to the softer grip wax if extending the grip wax forwards is ineffective. IME- there is little advantage to extending the grip wax backwards.

2) If extending the current grip wax forwards is ineffective, then I apply a softer wax on top of the harder wax in the kick zone.

If I am still slipping I return to step 1.

(Klister is an incredible thing for conditions that are almost impossible to grip wax, but I only use it for a clean groomed track. I find every imaginable piece of forest debris sticks to klister when I am skiing through the woods!)

I also assume that the USGI will still glide better than a S-112 even with full length wax.

These skis will glide faster than the S-112 for all kinds of reasons- and grip wax is like magic- it grips AND it glides!

So for positive grip, and the fact I like wax (glide) on my skis, I thought it may be a good idea to start out with full length base wax.


So- are you going to apply grip wax to the entire base- on top of the base binder?

I am just trying to keep this wax thing simple


With you here man! I know a few skiers who are bit disturbed by how I approach grip waxing- and the only thing I change on the track is that I have klister as an option. I am a backcountry skier, which is totally different context than performance-oriented waxing for the groomed track. That being said- my personal approach to waxing suits me just fine for the occasional K&G session on the groomed track.

I want to concentrate on K&G technique, and do not want to slip too much. I can make turns , I want to get better at going straight.

Well- these skis are an excellent tool for working on this. They are fabulous BC-XC skis.
Last edited by lilcliffy on Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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