Altai Skis Hok Review

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lilcliffy
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Altai Skis Hok Review

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:27 pm

woodchuck wrote:Altai says "Do not hot wax the skin". What could go wrong?!


I think that Altai's warning against hot-waxing the skin is because of potential effects on the adhesives attaching the skin permanently to the ski base...

Hot-waxing a removable skin is obviously fine.

You are brave to hot wax that permanent skin! Let us know how you make out- if the skin stays attached, I may just consider trying it...

Have you tried a rub on wax like the BD Glop Stopper?
https://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/sk ... 0ALL1.html
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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lilcliffy
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Altai Skis Hok Review

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:45 pm

12gaugesage wrote:I started on the 125's, went to 145's, for more fore/aft stability. Ive used them with the uni bindings, nnnbc, and now finally 75mm/T4's to try and get a little more DH ability. While I am pretty blown away with the control of the T4, I find myself now going for steeper. longer descents, and again they're getting away from me a bit, the tails coming out from under me and dropping me on my ass.

At 6'1" 210#, am I just at the limit of this skis capability, or is it more a matter of technique? I find myself leaning low and forward to compensate, but thats not a great position to recover and control from, though its a nice place to bail, tuck and roll from, lol.
Any insights?
Thanks


Not sure if I can help you here without actually skiing with you...but I will try! :D

First it sounds like you may have been skiing "in the backseat" meaning perhaps you were not balanced on your skis?

Second- and this may be the fundamental issue- at your weight and height, even 145cm is a very short ski- especially downhill skiing in the backcountry where the micro-terrain, and snow conditions can be so variable. 145cm does not offer much stability at any siginificant speed. And- those rockered tips make the effective edge of the Hok significantly shorter than 145cm- so, on snow that you need some edge hold, the 145cm Hok is going to feel VERY short and unstable at speed.

(Of course, traditionally skiers used a single pole ("lurk" or "tiak") in order to deal with downhill stability issues- both fore-aft and lateral. Have you tried a single pole with your Hoks?)

Sounds to me like you are starting to do some serious downhill skiing in the backcountry...

I am thinking that you are going to want a longer ski that offers better downhill performance and stability than the Hok...

The other issue may perhaps be that grippy permanent skin...

I keep my feet moving on the Hok- even when downhill skiing- in order to prevent the staggering effects of catching that skin at speed. In other words I treat the Hok like a XC ski on the downhill (despite the width and smooth, soft, single camber). I find that if I try to just ride the Hok at speed, I end up catching the grippy skins which leaves me staggering (this is less of an issue with the tiak). Step turns/telemarks seem to improve glide and keep me better balanced...
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

woodchuck
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Altai Skis Hok Review

Postby woodchuck » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:24 am

lilcliffy wrote:
woodchuck wrote:Altai says "Do not hot wax the skin". What could go wrong?!


I think that Altai's warning against hot-waxing the skin is because of potential effects on the adhesives attaching the skin permanently to the ski base...

Hot-waxing a removable skin is obviously fine.

You are brave to hot wax that permanent skin! Let us know how you make out- if the skin stays attached, I may just consider trying it...

Have you tried a rub on wax like the BD Glop Stopper?
https://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/sk ... 0ALL1.html


I tried a rub on glide wax on the skin and it improved the glide, but only for a very short time (about an hour). The same with silicone spray (recommended by Altai). Haven't tried the glop stopper.

The iron on wax I am using is a very low melting temp universal wax from Hertel -- "Hot Sauce" iirc. It's soft, rubs on the skin ("dry") easily, irons in rapidly with the iron at 60 C, the skin is barely warm after the ironing pass. It's a small amount of wax, can't imagine it will affect the adhesive layer. I've done this twice, no issues, the skin performs well with the wax and this at least lasts a couple or three hours. If I screw 'em up, I'll let you know.

12gaugesage
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:33 pm
Location: MWV

Re: Altai Skis Hok Review

Postby 12gaugesage » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:41 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
12gaugesage wrote:I started on the 125's, went to 145's, for more fore/aft stability. Ive used them with the uni bindings, nnnbc, and now finally 75mm/T4's to try and get a little more DH ability. While I am pretty blown away with the control of the T4, I find myself now going for steeper. longer descents, and again they're getting away from me a bit, the tails coming out from under me and dropping me on my ass.

At 6'1" 210#, am I just at the limit of this skis capability, or is it more a matter of technique? I find myself leaning low and forward to compensate, but thats not a great position to recover and control from, though its a nice place to bail, tuck and roll from, lol.
Any insights?
Thanks


Not sure if I can help you here without actually skiing with you...but I will try! :D

First it sounds like you may have been skiing "in the backseat" meaning perhaps you were not balanced on your skis?

Second- and this may be the fundamental issue- at your weight and height, even 145cm is a very short ski- especially downhill skiing in the backcountry where the micro-terrain, and snow conditions can be so variable. 145cm does not offer much stability at any siginificant speed. And- those rockered tips make the effective edge of the Hok significantly shorter than 145cm- so, on snow that you need some edge hold, the 145cm Hok is going to feel VERY short and unstable at speed.

(Of course, traditionally skiers used a single pole ("lurk" or "tiak") in order to deal with downhill stability issues- both fore-aft and lateral. Have you tried a single pole with your Hoks?)

Sounds to me like you are starting to do some serious downhill skiing in the backcountry...

I am thinking that you are going to want a longer ski that offers better downhill performance and stability than the Hok...

The other issue may perhaps be that grippy permanent skin...

I keep my feet moving on the Hok- even when downhill skiing- in order to prevent the staggering effects of catching that skin at speed. In other words I treat the Hok like a XC ski on the downhill (despite the width and smooth, soft, single camber). I find that if I try to just ride the Hok at speed, I end up catching the grippy skins which leaves me staggering (this is less of an issue with the tiak). Step turns/telemarks seem to improve glide and keep me better balanced...


Hmmm.... Digesting all this as I was on my Hoks the other day, hitting a fairly steep (to me), narrow local chute, I start off forward and low, then I end up in the "backseat" when I gain speed. I was able maintain a bit of awareness the other day and catch myself with my poles when the skis were getting away from me. A single pole used in "tripod" fashion would definitely be the ticket, not sure if I would want to maneuver it in tight woodland terrain though.

Ultimately It seems the hoks are perhaps better suited for heavily rolling terrain and for more utilitarian duties.
I like eggs


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