wax vs scales vs XSkin vs klister

[lilcliffy]

We had a serious warm-up on Saturday that- combined with light rain showers- turned my hero cold soft snow in to wet, soft and rotten.
I still had an excellent tour however.

I went out first with my E99 Crown Xtralite and could not get any traction- there was not enough stability in the snow for the scales to grip.

I then went out with my Gamme 54 BC and 45mm mohair X-Skin- trimmed to my heel. I treated them with my BD "Glop Stopper" skin wax. The performance was excellent- decent grip and excellent glide.

If you look carefully at the photo you can see where I did not get good enough coverage on the skin and it is saturated with water. Otherwise, the skin stayed water repellent. Approx. 15km tour in soaking wet soft snow.

[Woodserson]

I have found that the tails of the skins always end up getting wet.

Do you do the back and forth motion when waxing your skins?

Also, I have had totally saturated mohairs and they still gripped, at least on the flats.

Finally, you lucky bastard.

[Johnny]

you made me consider getting the WL version, but I don't want the drag and the noise that usually come with the scales

If your waxless skis are making noise, it means that you are doing something wrong. Either using them on the wrong type of snow, or skiing under unhygienic conditions (Other people's tracks...)

[lowangle al]

The snow makes a difference but some brands make more noise than others.

Wax kicked ass compared to scales the last two days. The previous two days not as much difference. As the snow got colder and dryer kick wax had much better glide and at least as good a kick as scales. Yesterday my Voile Insanes were much faster than my wifes vector bcs. The good glide and smoothness enabled me to make turns on low angle hills that wouldn't have been steep enough for my scaled vectors.

Today I caught up to an XCDer with light nnn-bc boots with skinny alpina skis. I skied about 3 miles with the guy and stopped to wait for him twice. I estimate I was about 30% faster than him and I broke trail. I think the difference was more than just wax vs scales. I think all of that surface area of my Insanes made the skis faster also. It seemed his skis were sinking into a soft crust below the softer powder on top that my fatties stayed on top of.

I've noticed before that my fat skis glide at least as good as skinny ones. The only downside is their weight, and that doesn't matter all that much on a gentle slope that acts as an inclined plane, as long as you keep your skis on the snow.

[greatgt]

Over the years I've found that skinny is faster than fat....been wondering about this for a bit....The wide skis have a wide tip...I kinda think that that is like a snow plough while the skinnies are like a javelin...Last week Telekid had on 99's and with 14 inches of powder or so and heavy crust down below he had some problems breaking...That is unusual....Skiing down...well...as soon as the skis elongated he was off like a shot....Bout as fast as can be....The 109's broke well and skied down well....But not as fast as the 99's on the down...fun to see and feel differences....And as LC hints at....First time Telekid tried the 109's he was crossing a small Brooke...The rocker tips and tail folded and into the depression he went...Don't think he has much appreciation for Rocker...For me it's just an adjustment on the up....TM

[lowangle al]

Maybe it's not the width but the double camber of the skis you ski that make them faster. As far as for the down, skinny skis generally require more speed to work, but I'm not sure if they are faster.

[FourthCoast]

[...] Wax kicked ass compared to scales the last two days. [...]

I do not have experience in the mountains or much nordic skiing experience at all. But here it my opinion anyway:

If wax can work then ski it with wax. It is sooo sweet to grip at first and then as soon as you break-away down hill the glide is just perfect.

Some years (decades) ago I did some XC skiing with my family growing up. We had waxless skis and they worked. It is easy to look at a waxless pattern and say 'oh, yeah, I get it -- it slides forwards only'. Wax is a little more mysterious.

Getting back into skiing I started out looking for some 'down hill fishscale' type of skis. Now I am convinced that I will only own skis that are smooth on the bottom so I can cork on wax and scrape off wax.

The other day skiing trails with swix blue on my skis was one of the most enjoyable days of skiing I can remember. It is definitely the most fun I have had with a nordic binding. A friend of mine who has done XC with his family for many years was out on the same day. He said it was the worst day ever. It seems the snow was getting stuck to their waxless skis and icing up into big heavy chunks of snow holding them to the ground.

You can't change the weather -- so it only makes sense to change the wax!

(Rainy weather is a problem. I need to decide if I really WANT to be able to ski in the rain ....)

[lilcliffy]

Part of the problem is calling them "waxless" skis in the first place.

I too- like Al- have abandoned glide wax for my touring skis (all of them- XC/XCd/xcD/D) and am using a hard cold grip wax as a base prep on the entire ski- regardless of whether they have a smooth or scaled base.

This has transformed the performance of all of my skis- smooth or scaled.
They all tour better in cold, soft snow.
I never have to deal with snow sticking to my difficult-to-wax scales.
I can get away with a full level of harder kick wax than I would with glide-waxed tip/tail.
The base is easily touched up with a tin on the tour.
I don't have to constantly strip and re-apply temperature-specific glide wax.
The grip is so much improved that I am using skins a fraction of the time/distance I used to (AND- on cold soft snow I am getting good or better traction with grip wax + kicker skin- then I was with glide wax plus full-length skin.)
The other comment I can make is that I can "feel" the snow better- I feel that I am not only more stable, and make better-linked turns- I feel that I am a more responsive skier with a grip-waxed base

Although a perfectly performing grip-waxed smooth base is purely sublime- grip waxing my so-called "waxless" scaled skis has completely transformed them and greatly extended their range of utility.

[lowangle al]

Fourthcoast, living at the lower latitudes of ski country I think a no-wax ski has its place. I wished that I had my no-wax skis on today. The temps were mid teens at about 8AM and were pushing 30F by the time I got out at 10:00. As the day warmed I had to rewax three times which is no big deal, but about 7 miles into a ten mile ski the red/silver was failing and I could feel it in my arms. Even if I had a softer wax I would have hated to use it, but I'm not a waxing expert, especially in warm temps.

LC, I'm trying to conserve on my polar so I glide waxed with a harder green and it worked just as well and was easier to apply.

GT the fat skies road on top of the snow instead of plowing through it, I think that's what made the difference. I skied with a guy on no-wax xc skis for about 4 miles today mostly on a packed road and we traveled at the same speed. I did have to work a little harder as my wax started to fail me though.

[Cannatonic]

interesting - I didn't know skins had to be kept dry. I've been putting "Maxiglide" on them to increase glide. They get wet but it doesn't seem to affect anything. It would be easy to apply "Glob Stopper" I wonder what's in it? Just paraffin-based wax?