Setting up Falketind 62s with NNN-BC

[timpete]

I am new to the forum - but have been reading interestedly for a while. It's time for my first post and question. By background I am a midwestern cross country skier (i.e. groomed tracks, marathons, really skinny skis) who recently discovered what is here called "xcd" skiing when I bought the Coleman's Surplus Asnes USGI skis (210 cm) and set them up with NNN-BC and Alpina Alaskas. While I usually use them for bushwacking in northern Minnesota (for which they excel), I took them out west last winter and got hooked on the feel of sidecountry downhill skiing on light skis with leather boots, as well as the uphill skinning. I decided then and there I'm throwing away the plastic alpine boots and all-mountain skis of my youth. Even if I can't ski the chutes and steep moguls in trees I can with my old alpine equipment, having comfortable free-heel skiing leather boots where I don't feel constricted, and can stride and wax or skin uphill is more than a worthy trade-off.

But, while learning tele turns on 210 cm true nordic double camber skis with next to zero sidecut was good fun, I need something more practical for the mountains. Therefore, I am setting up Asnes FT 62 skis (188 cm) with NNN-BC bindings for my trip this year based on reading of this forum. (While the Xplore binding interested me, I love my relatively new NNN-BC Alaskas and preferred to not require a new Xplore boot and bindings and the associated cost. As a skinny-ski / race nordic skier, NNN-BCs feel very burly relative to what I am used to. Maybe in 10 years if Xplore gains steam I will go that way when I need new boots. )

One thing I want while setting up my FT 62s is a low heel lift wire for skinning. I plan to leave out the NNN-BC heel plate and put something down there with a climbing wire. What do people recommend for this? I've searched and searched the interwebs, but I can't seem to find something to purchase that fits what I'm looking for. I think I need a Voile 55mm heel piece or something similar, but I can't find it anywhere! Is my best bet buying a full binding and just using the heel? This seems silly from a cost perspective.

I'm also interested if people think it is silly to put riser heel plate on NNN-BC at all, perhaps I should just deal with the strained calves for the few sections of 25 deg + skinning I do? Or, are there other ways to add a riser to NNN-BC with the heel plate? I've also thought about machining a rubber block that fits onto the heel plate sides that have a slight overhang, but expect it's best just to buy a Voile-esque heel piece.

Second, do people who've done downhill with NNN-BC setups like I'm doing like the red or white flexors? I'm inclined to go with white (the stiffest?) but I'm not sure if that will hamper my free heel while skinning up, particularly with risers. My past experience with USGIs was the black XC flexor and I could definitely use a bit of help to keep that trailing ball of foot engaged, as the Alaska sole is quite stiff.

[Stephen]

You have already skied the USGIs and must think that a riser would be desirable.
I’m probably the exception in not liking the feel of risers.
They just feel unnatural to me.
I mean, would I put risers on my shoes or boots to walk up an incline? No.

Maybe I haven’t done enough serious climbing with skins.

I bet others here will have some good suggestions for adding just the riser to the NNN BC bindings.

Do you already have the skis?
If not, you might also look at the Voile Objective.

[Woodserson]

Get the flat Voile heel pad with riser, I might have some to sell you, if I can find. Or look on eBay. Maybe Voile sells separately?

Red flexor. I don’t think anyone likes white for skiing, if you can even find. I like red, definitely.

Search FrenchFred on this forum, he set up his FT62 with NNNBC. He has nice pictures of the Alps.

[John_XCD]

Voile sells heel pad for 10 bucks a pair. Per my email with them with this exact question:

"Please go to this link: https://www.voile.com/external.html

Item Name: 3-Pin Cable Climbing Heel Pad
Item Code: 601-SP
Item Price: 10

Hope this helps,
Lam
Voile Manufacturing
2636 S Constitution Blvd
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119 USA"

They have the heel riser also for 10 bucks a pair on the website (so 20 bucks to add a heel pad and riser to NNNBC binding).

That said, in leather boots I'm often quite happy to just walk up steeper pitches on the ball of my feet with heels lifted off the binding due to flex in the toe of the boot (like I would in running shoes).

I came to xcd from the same route as you (from xc racing) and happily telemarked on NNNBC with black flexors. Picked up the red flexors this year and they are a quick and easy upgrade for downhill control (I wouldn't say they add power so much as help encourage/remind you to keep the ball of the foot down). Don't love the feel for kick and glide and steeper skinning can be uncomfortable.

[timpete]

Voile sells heel pad for 10 bucks a pair. Per my email with them with this exact question:

"Please go to this link: https://www.voile.com/external.html

Item Name: 3-Pin Cable Climbing Heel Pad
Item Code: 601-SP
Item Price: 10

Hope this helps,
Lam
Voile Manufacturing
2636 S Constitution Blvd
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119 USA"

They have the heel riser also for 10 bucks a pair on the website (so 20 bucks to add a heel pad and riser to NNNBC binding).

That said, in leather boots I'm often quite happy to just walk up steeper pitches on the ball of my feet with heels lifted off the binding due to flex in the toe of the boot (like I would in running shoes).

I came to xcd from the same route as you (from xc racing) and happily telemarked on NNNBC with black flexors. Picked up the red flexors this year and they are a quick and easy upgrade for downhill control (I wouldn't say they add power so much as help encourage/remind you to keep the ball of the foot down). Don't love the feel for kick and glide and steeper skinning can be uncomfortable.

Wow, this was exactly the info I needed. Already completed order and checked out! Thanks! I also appreciate the input on red flexors. I'll go with red over white, then, for sure.

Stephen: I meant just a heel flip-up climbing wire, not a "riser" in the sense that it's used in alpine jargon (I think). I definitely want the toe-part of the binding mounted directly to the ski. When I get the Voile heel piece, I'll eye-ball it compared to the NNN-BC heel piece and make sure it doesn't look like it would adversely effect anything while striding or downhill. If it doesn't look right I'll just leave it off as has been said above, it's not awful skinning at an angle with softer boots for a short while.

I did look at the Voile Objective; I decided against because I wanted to drive the ski with Alaskas and NNN-BC, and I was worried that anything over ~75 mm underfoot may be a bit much for leathers and that binding, when put on edge on the occasional groomer. (I'm well aware I'm falling into the "next ski completes my quiver" fallacy here, but don't we all... I really am infatuated with my Alaskas driving my entire backcountry quiver for now, as I am primarily a flatlander ) I'm not sure how often I'll actually kick wax the FT 62 (vs skins), but I did like that option of the kickwax pocket, as I'm very used to kickwaxing from nordic racing.

[Stephen]

@timpete, I mis-used the terminology.
I said “Riser.”
I meant the Climbing Heel Pad thingy.
Climbing wire, heel lifter, whatever they are called.

Disregard riser.
It’s the heel climbing thing I don’t like the feel of.
Like @John_XCD said :
“That said, in leather boots I'm often quite happy to just walk up steeper pitches on the ball of my feet with heels lifted off the binding due to flex in the toe of the boot (like I would in running shoes).”

Hope that’s more clear…

FWIW, I have liked the Voile Objectives with NNN BC and ALFA Guards.

[jyw5]

timpete, I mis-used the terminology.
I said “Riser.”
I meant the Climbing Heel Pad thingy.
Climbing wire, heel lifter, whatever they are called.

Disregard riser.
It’s the heel climbing thing I don’t like the feel of.
Like John_XCD said :
“That said, in leather boots I'm often quite happy to just walk up steeper pitches on the ball of my feet with heels lifted off the binding due to flex in the toe of the boot (like I would in running shoes).”

Hope that’s more clear…

FWIW, I have liked the Voile Objectives with NNN BC and ALFA Guards.

I agree with you, Stephen... dont need heel lifters for these skis...they are so light. I have FT62/NNN BC/alfa guard and use full length 60 or 62mm pomoca mohair race 2.0 skins with the notch tip attachment ...can climb nearly everything with those. I hope the new FT62 is better than the 2019 version as far as use case on a wider set of conditions.

btw, in very good conditions, I use my lightest leather alfa boot...the quest core which works excellent in spring conditions. cuts about 250g from the weight. (not that it needs to be any lighter).

[timpete]

Definitely noted on your all opinion that climbing bar isn't needed for leather boots and ski this light - but I want to push a little, are you saying that the Voile heel piece with e.g. 58 mm bar (flipped down) actually adversely effects the feel of the boot on the ski while downhill or striding?

If there's no negative, I'll probably mount it anyway, just in case I come across that 2000' pitch at steady 20 deg + incline. In true backcountry this is probably a rare route but when skinning up resorts "uphill" route it can happen as they just follow downhill fall-line runs. However, if the Voile heel piece makes the boot sole not sit as well on the ski with the bar down, then I will follow your advise and not mount it up.

I'll be using full length Coltex 60mm nylon skins for these skis when skinning, which I had for my 210cm USGIs. I'll just cut them down as I don't anticipate much skinning in the future with the USGIs now that I have FT62s, they shine in skiing where you want to kick-wax.

Thanks for opinions, very valuable!

[Stephen]

… are you saying that the Voile heel piece with e.g. 58 mm bar (flipped down) actually adversely effects the feel of the boot on the ski while downhill or striding?

I don’t know, but someone else might — @jyw5 probably does.

[fisheater]

Definitely noted on your all opinion that climbing bar isn't needed for leather boots and ski this light - but I want to push a little, are you saying that the Voile heel piece with e.g. 58 mm bar (flipped down) actually adversely effects the feel of the boot on the ski while downhill or striding?

If there's no negative, I'll probably mount it anyway, just in case I come across that 2000' pitch at steady 20 deg + incline. In true backcountry this is probably a rare route but when skinning up resorts "uphill" route it can happen as they just follow downhill fall-line runs. However, if the Voile heel piece makes the boot sole not sit as well on the ski with the bar down, then I will follow your advise and not mount it up.

I'll be using full length Coltex 60mm nylon skins for these skis when skinning, which I had for my 210cm USGIs. I'll just cut them down as I don't anticipate much skinning in the future with the USGIs now that I have FT62s, they shine in skiing where you want to kick-wax.

Thanks for opinions, very valuable!

There is absolutely no negative in using a flat Voile heel piece with a flip up climbing wire. I have both the older FT and the new FT Xplore, which has a black topsheet. Which model did you get?