Physics debate

[lowangle al]

I just saw your above post with the boot twist problem. You can't effectively turn a ski by twisting your boot, cable or not. If you're doing that you need to get more weight on the ski and turn it that way. Funny thing is if you can't get enough weight on your rear ski the tip pressure caused from an active binding will turn a ski.

[connyro]

GS: I'm pretty sure the problem here is your not your lack of understanding general physics, but is instead your lack of understanding of telemark turn technique. I don't have the patience nor the vocabulary to describe where you are going wrong but I suspect there are a few others here that would do a good job. Good luck

[Stephen]

@GrimSurfer, I somewhat agree with you.
The cable helps stabilize the heel like shrouds on a mast keep the mast from tipping to leeward.
And, that SOME rotational force can be imparted to the ski through this mechanism.
But as others have said, this is not the MAIN force that makes skis turn in a Telemark turn.
The main things that make a ski turn are some combination of skidding and "carving," the act of the ski following an arc in the snow due to ski side cut.

I think what others are trying to get you to see is the concept of "Active Binding."
The fact that the cable anchor point is behind the pivot point is the key.
Raising the heel, pulling on the cable allows the skier to tip or lean further forward that they would be able to without the cable.
This allows the skier to place relatively more pressure or weight on the front of the ski, which engages the front of the ski, increasing the flex in the front of the ski and therefore shortening the turn radius of the ski at that moment.
@anyone, if I've got any of that wrong, please jump in...

[GrimSurfer]

Oh, I agree. A Telemark turn is all about shifting weight over the skis. Lots of technique and placement too…

I don’t have enough cartilage in my knees to apply sufficient torque through my leg to turn a ski in deep powder all on its own. My ACL would break faster than a guitar string… and I’ve never had a knee injury in my life.

Is there rotational force? Sure. It helps. But shifting weight plays a much greater role.

I also agree with what you said about leaning forward. The cable probably takes strain off of the tendons at the back of the knee, shifting that strain to the lower leg and ankle (which are far more capable of handing the forces).

That’s why I see the cable as a control device, rather than something that transmits force/weight/pressure to the ski. I believe “we” do that part. (In my case, often poorly)

[fisheater]

@Stephen , instead of a cable (spring) Imagine a hardwire without a spring. Instead of saying the hardwire is attached to the binding, say it is attached to the ski. Because the hardwire without a spring is attached to the ski. The binding is merely an attachment point.
The heel raises to the point the hardwire is taunt. Any pressure than is applied equally to the opposite side of the attachment point. THE FRONT OF THE SKI!!!

This entire thread GS is because you’re to proud to listen to people that understand.

[bauerb]

come on guys, this is a Family forum! you can't show tele skiers in Lycra...it sends the wrong message. I fixed the picture the best I could to make it more "tele-like"

[GrimSurfer]

Cod piece… totally necessary with Lycra.

[Stephen]

@GrimSurfer, no.
A cable binding is more like an alpine binding than you seem to realize.
An alpine binding directly holds the back of the boot to the ski so that a skier may pressure the front of the ski in the turn. This concept implies that a skier is not simply balanced over the ski, but rather actively able to lever more pressure onto the front of the ski.
A cable binding less-directly does this. It resists the lifting of the heel, which has the same, but to a less degree, effect as what happens with an alpine binding.
Maybe do some offline research on the concept of active telemark binding and how that works.
For example, the springs in my Meidjo bindings and how stiffer springs make the binding more active and what effect that has.

[Stephen]

@Stephen , instead of a cable (spring) Imagine a hardwire without a spring. Instead of saying the hardwire is attached to the binding, say it is attached to the ski. Because the hardwire without a spring is attached to the ski. The binding is merely an attachment point.
The heel raises to the point the hardwire is taunt. Any pressure than is applied equally to the opposite side of the attachment point. THE FRONT OF THE SKI!!!

This entire thread GS is because you’re to proud to listen to people that understand.

Totally agree, and in different works what I meant to communicate.
Semantics!

[GrimSurfer]

Oh, while different ballgame with an active binding. For sure.