Learning to Turn on Resort Setup

[Montana St Alum]

I found that learning to get a consistent carve, where you leave pencil thin lines and no skidding, is the hardest thing I've committed to learning in a telemark stance. If you can get an inexpensive, TIGHT turning ski to learn on, it helps. For me, that was a short Rossi EXP 84. For one thing, carving is FAST and I was getting very intimidated by speed and needed a wide run to get enough angle across the fall line to control speed. Once you have gotten that "picture" of stance and feel to your muscles, the carve becomes much easier on even wide skis. I find that my Rustler 10's (now that I know how to do it) carve beautifully.

Also, the right conditions help as well. If the snow is packed, but soft, the edge goes in enough to cause the boot to drag. That's a little of what was happening here (on rustler 9s) and I had to keep adjusting the edge angle to free the boot. In fact, I find that the EXP-84's are now too narrow, as my lean angle has gotten over enough that the boot always drags on them unless it's super hard pack - unusual in Utah.



Also, I have a tendency to have TOO much weight on the back ski. This video was from over a year ago and my tracks (which are a good way to self-analyze) tended to have the rear ski-track deeper than the front ski-track. This year, I think I've finally broken the code on it. My tracks seem to be pretty symmetrical, and I'm graduating to steeper terrain.

But it's an ongoing process, for sure and you really have to have the right conditions and the right gear to pick it up!

For the purposes of self-analysis, this is what I'm looking at as success:

This, below, is from about 10 years ago, working on technique for short and long radius turns. It really helps to have someone record what you're doing. What works for me may not for others. My tendency starting out was to not get enough weight back. After a season the problem (for my goals) was too much weight back. I lift my inside ski a bit in the transition. It's less obvious now, but I still do it and find that skiing the bumps, in particular, this helps me stay up over the front ski appropriately. But everyone is different.

[Stephen]

These are all great comments!
I’m looking at all this from the bottom of the learning curve.

Skiing yesterday I was paying attention a bit... to really weight the rear ski, we all know you need to keep your rear leg from getting too far behind - What it really feels like to me is that I'm essentially trying to sit down on the rear foots' little toe. The inside/rear boot needs to feel like it's under your butt. Tight!
In practice it's probably a little further back than that - see first photo you posted earlier.

To a recent alpine convert, I suspect that would feel like skiing in the back seat a bit, but your not, because your weight is supported by a rear positioned leg (dropped inside leg). Notice how the forward leg in the pic is almost straight up - not hard angled forward like a well pressured alpine turn. Yes, you still are pressuring the forward shin, but not like a real alpine carved turn, IMO

That sense of sitting on the rear foot, like I’m about to sit on a stool, is where I’m at now, and important to focus that pressure on the little toe side of the foot — not just a general, even weight on BOF.
Keeping pressure on the front foot boot cuff seems important — not letting the front leg get 90* to the ski, but still have a forward tilt.

There is a point when the snow gets hard enough that I switch to P turns. Telemark is a soft snow turn.

One problem for a beginner is to know when NOT to try T turns. When I know I'm beat I'll switch to P turns or even snowplow and wedge turns. Or you could try a narrower ski if you have one.

I think skiers better than I am can deal with firmer snow better than I can. That’s something I’m working on.
Last night, descending 2,800’ of after-hours ski run on 196 FTX, getting dark, with already toasted legs from skiing the backside, and just wanting to get back to the car, the P turn was my friend!

what I see most commonly is beginners not getting low enough...maybe because its very taxing? I'm not sure.

Being lower definitely feels more dynamic. Can do more with the knees. Can still have a tight (front/back) stance. Yours looks a little more open? You have stronger legs than I do!
Maybe you have already started to roll your skis into the next turn, but it looks like you have a little more edge angle on the rear / inside ski?

I found that learning to get a consistent carve, where you leave pencil thin lines and no skidding, is the hardest thing I've committed to learning in a telemark stance. If you can get an inexpensive, TIGHT turning ski to learn on, it helps. For me, that was a short Rossi EXP 84. For one thing, carving is FAST and I was getting very intimidated by speed and needed a wide run to get enough angle across the fall line to control speed. Once you have gotten that "picture" of stance and feel to your muscles, the carve becomes much easier on even wide skis. I find that my Rustler 10's (now that I know how to do it) carve beautifully.

But it's an ongoing process, for sure and you really have to have the right conditions and the right gear to pick it up!

For the purposes of self-analysis, this is what I'm looking at as success:

My tendency starting out was to not get enough weight back. After a season the problem (for my goals) was too much weight back. I lift my inside ski a bit in the transition. It's less obvious now, but I still do it and find that skiing the bumps, in particular, this helps me stay up over the front ski appropriately. But everyone is different.

Tracks to die for!
That looks like great snow — what I’ve been skiing has been more compacted and transformed.

I sometimes feel like I don’t have enough weight on BOTH skis! Like I want more pressure. I imagine it’s an edge control thing.

Lifting the back leg in the transition… That seems like a natural movement, like releasing the pressure and stepping / sliding into the next turn. For me, it seems like that doesn’t work as well in deeper snow — throws off my balance. I’m thinking it might be better to try and maintain more even weight on the skis in powder?

So far, I’ve been skiing pretty compacted snow, which is where I’m having the most difficulty.
Last year was mostly spring skiing Mt Hood corn snow. Mornings were challenging, afternoons a lot more fun.

Anything where I can get predictable edge pressure is a lot easier than a hard surface, where edge control is more binary — either good bite, or skidding out.

[lowangle al]

If you want to carve railroad tracks you'll need to get tighter in your stance. Opening up my stance also made it easier to concentrate on edging each ski separately.

[Stephen]

If you want to carve railroad tracks you'll need to get tighter in your stance. Opening up my stance also made it easier to concentrate on edging each ski separately.

When you say “Opening,” do you mean front/back, or side/side?

[lowangle al]

These turns we’re on dbl camber no wax skis wit 3pins bindings and leather boots.

[lowangle al]

If you want to carve railroad tracks you'll need to get tighter in your stance. Opening up my stance also made it easier to concentrate on edging each ski separately.

When you say “Opening,” do you mean front/back, or side/side?

Side to side, you can see how wide apart they are in the above pic. My tracks aren't as parallel as MSU's but these skis weren't made for turning.

[Montana St Alum]

....these skis weren't made for turning.

Yeah, on these, my tracks would have just looked like handprints in the snow.

[Stephen]

....these skis weren't made for turning.

Yeah, on these, my tracks would have just looked like handprints in the snow.

You do have a knack for one-liners!