Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Real reviews by real skiers. What a concept! Add your own today. Reviews only please, questions can be posted as replies but new threads looking for opinions should be posted to the main Telemark Talk Forum.
User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2967
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Occupation: Confused Turn Farmer

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by Woodserson » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:35 pm

lilcliffy, I don't want to go much bigger than the 98's because then what's really the point to have the no-wax gription base with anything bigger? I might as well break out some of my old fat skis, or get a Fischer TransAlp, and throw some pins on those, or an AT binding and get back into the alpine side (w/ skins). I'm of course sorely tempted to go back to fat, but the reason I'm here now is because of injuries, and not only do I want to stay healthy, I'm really enjoying the slower, skinnier, side of the XCD skiing. It's a neat little corner of the skiing world that I am very happy in, at the moment.

So a review on the 78, hmmm? What do we want to know? Should it be a new thread? In a previous life long ago I used to review skis, but I'm no longer super-duper-expert skier on this type of equipment.

MikeK

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by MikeK » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:04 pm

Yes - please start a new thread in this section.

You can say whatever you want. I'm no expert. But surely you can tell use something better than Fischer can ;)



User avatar
CIMA
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:01 pm
Location: Japan
Ski style: NNN-BC
Favorite Skis: Rossignol XP100
Favorite boots: Fischer BC GT
Occupation: Retired

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by CIMA » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:29 pm

Hi Woodserson,

You seem to be inclining toward xcD rather than XCd like me. :-)
How about picking S-bound 88?
It's good enough for me to ski downhill in even in deep powder.
I'm riding on it with SNS setup, and it would be further better if you care about your feet.
The flowing river never stops and yet the water never stays the same.



User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2967
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Occupation: Confused Turn Farmer

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by Woodserson » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:54 pm

CIMA wrote:Hi Woodserson,

You seem to be inclining toward xcD rather than XCd like me. :-)
How about picking S-bound 88?
It's good enough for me to ski downhill in even in deep powder.
I'm riding on it with SNS setup, and it would be further better if you care about your feet.
Hi CIMA, I love your videos! I thought for the past two years I was going to get the 88, but then if I already have the 78, won't jumping to the 98 cover more skiing? What do you mean by "further better if you care about your feet."?

Sell me on the 88 over the 98. I'm all ears!

I actually do lots of XCd, but usually on skis that 68 in the shovel and thinner, like the Fischer Country Crown/Wax (I have both), but as I get more and more into xcD, I want the beefier ski. The 3 pins on the 78 was an experiment, I had 2 years on them with NNN BC binding, and even now, I think about going back to the NNNBC, especially if I get an 88 or 98 into the mix. Talk to me about the 88



User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2967
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Occupation: Confused Turn Farmer

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by Woodserson » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:56 pm

MikeK wrote:Yes - please start a new thread in this section.

You can say whatever you want. I'm no expert. But surely you can tell use something better than Fischer can ;)
What? "A-B touring efficient camber" isn't enough for you? haha



User avatar
CIMA
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:01 pm
Location: Japan
Ski style: NNN-BC
Favorite Skis: Rossignol XP100
Favorite boots: Fischer BC GT
Occupation: Retired

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by CIMA » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:53 pm

Woodserson wrote: I thought for the past two years I was going to get the 88, but then if I already have the 78, won't jumping to the 98 cover more skiing?
Well, the fatter skis get, the easier you get flotation.
However, it would get more difficult to control the skis or get less comfortable during kick-and-glide at the same time. I've found that S-bound 88 was the meeting point for powder skiing. For consolidated snow, I would pick skinnier ones like Rossignol BC70.
Woodserson wrote: What do you mean by "further better if you care about your feet."?
The NNN/SNS setup is less prone to injuries on you feet than that of 3-pin, especially when torsional stress is applied to your skis. That is truer if you're on beefier skis.
Woodserson wrote: I actually do lots of XCd, but usually on skis that 68 in the shovel and thinner, like the Fischer Country Crown/Wax (I have both), but as I get more and more into xcD, I want the beefier ski. The 3 pins on the 78 was an experiment, I had 2 years on them with NNN BC binding, and even now, I think about going back to the NNNBC, especially if I get an 88 or 98 into the mix. Talk to me about the 88
If you'd like to ski on powder on skis skinnier than 98, NNN/SNS setup has an edge. The NNN/SNS setup gets more flotation than 3-pin does. You'll find the reasons in my comments in the "The NNN/BC Truth Thread."
I wouldn't pick the skies fatter than 88 because my boots Salomon Xadv 8 won't withstand torsional stress. Many friends of mine go for Madshus Epoch for powder skiing, but I like stiffer camber of 88. The 88 has "nordic rocker," but I don't find big different compared to its prior model, Outtabounds Crown which has normal double camber.
The flowing river never stops and yet the water never stays the same.



User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:12 pm

Woodserson wrote:lilcliffy, I don't want to go much bigger than the 98's because then what's really the point to have the no-wax gription base with anything bigger? I might as well break out some of my old fat skis, or get a Fischer TransAlp, and throw some pins on those, or an AT binding and get back into the alpine side (w/ skins). I'm of course sorely tempted to go back to fat, but the reason I'm here now is because of injuries, and not only do I want to stay healthy, I'm really enjoying the slower, skinnier, side of the XCD skiing. It's a neat little corner of the skiing world that I am very happy in, at the moment.
IMO- the Annum and the S-112 offer significantly better flotation than the Epoch and S-98.

Although I agree that the S-98 and Epoch are more versatile than the Annum and S-112; my experience is that the Annum and the S-112 will outperform the Epoch/S-98 in deep pow. IME; in deep powder, the extra width of the Annum/S-112 will offer better traction, better K&G, and better turning.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



User avatar
EarlS
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Boulder CO

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by EarlS » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:50 pm

Hi Mike K - Im curious about your experience with your Glittertinds and your E99s
MikeK wrote: I don't find the Glittertind all that slow to tour with. The E99 is perhaps a bit quicker, but if it is, not enough to write home about. I can't tell you for sure because of the difference in length between what we have.
From a later comment I gather that your Glitts are 200 cm but I am wondering what length your E99s are. I find that a 10 cm difference in length for a given ski type makes a noticeable difference in speed.
MikeK wrote: Neither feel like a true traditional xc touring ski though.
In his review of ski types, Dave Mann includes the older more narrow E99s (65/55/60) under "traditional touring" but the 2003-05 model (68/55/62) is classified as "old school tele", perhaps because of the slightly wider tip. Do you have the wider E99 model ?
MikeK wrote: Downhill neither are turny at all.
Dave Mann says that both traditional touring and old school teles are double cambered, but the old school teles are a bit softer which makes them easier to bend into tele turns. Do you really find that your soft Glittertinds are no easier to turn than the relatively stiff E99s ?

My old wood skis from the 60s and 70s have profiles like (59/50/52) and (55/50/50), which are more narrow than the current E99s (66/54/61), but I would have thought that, by virtue of their stiffness, all generations of E99s would feel like traditional Nordic skis.

I recently posted a telemarktalk review of my short Glittertinds. I have really mixed feelings about those skis; I think they are good at some things but pretty awful for others. When I bought them I thought I might use them for some aerobic exercise at our local Nordic resort. However, the "prepared" Nordic trails are packed so hard that my 180 cm Glittertinds skitter all over the place when coming down hills; furthermore, they are no faster than my 185 cm Karhu GTs either.

I have not skied on any of my Nordic skis for 10 years or more, but I am thinking that controlling my old Fischer Sport Crowns (51/48/49) cannot be much worse than my short Glittertinds. So, I resurrected the Sport Crowns, cleaned up the bottoms, which are still in pretty ragged shape from many years of abuse, and I plan to try them out at the Nordic resort next year to see if I still like that type of ski. If I can live with the lack of turning ability, I thought I might look for some E99s, thinking that they were a pretty traditional Nordic ski.

Do you regard your E89 crowns as more representative of the traditional Nordic ski type than your E99s ?



User avatar
Cannatonic
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:07 pm

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by Cannatonic » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:14 pm

IMO any adult man should not have E99/Glitt type skis below 200cm, totally disagree with Barnett there. 200cm is a short length for these. You need 205 or 210 to glide and float well. Sounds like the 180's are totally overwhelmed by your weight.

I find E99's to turn fairly easily due to their soft tips and flex. I've heard that the Glittertind is stiffer and more XC-focused vs. the E99, not the other way around. I would recommend 200cm E99's for what you want to do. I'm 180 pounds and the 205cm E99 is very easy to handle and turn for a nordic-type ski. I use the 210's most of the time for better glide and float in unconsolidated snow. The current late-model E99's are super lightweight, for 165 pounds I'd actually recommend 205's.

If you don't want long skis then I'd go to something like Fischer 78 Traverse in 189. That ski is designed to work with your weight at 189cm. I have them in 199cm and they seem very easy to turn.
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)



User avatar
stilltryin
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:12 pm
Location: WYO USA
Ski style: Wandering the untracked (by humans)
Favorite Skis: Voile V6 BC; Karhu XCD/GT
Favorite boots: Scarpa T3; Alpina Alaska NNN-BC
Occupation: ExFed

Re: Fischer S Bound 98 and Madshus Epoch

Post by stilltryin » Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:43 pm

Any updated thoughts comparing performance/use of S-bound 98 to what is now the Madshus m68?
I read early on in this thread that S-bound might be a bit more turn-oriented while the old Epoch might track better -- still? thoughts? (EZ skin is certainly one difference).



Post Reply