Weigh In

[Manney]

Googled high bmi glide wax. Didn’t find anything. Product off market maybe.

Ran most of the Asnes ski line. Paired shortest height and highest weight on their charts. That was the point on the tables where highest bmi could be found. (Might not be perfect. Ran the #s during an online meeting. Tried not to look bored or distracted.)

Ingstad 190cm skier height, 90kg skier weight, 205cm ski, bmi 24.9. Ingstad set up for lower bmi skiers? The chart #s make it look that way.

Tonje 170cm, 75kg, 185cm, bmi 26.0
Cecilie 180cm, 85kg, 195cm, bmi 26.2
Nansen 178cm, 85kg, 195cm, bmi 26.8

Breidablik 180cm, 95kg, 200cm, bmi 29.3
Amundsen, 180cm, 95kg, 201cm, bmi 29.3
Gamme 54 180 cm, 95kg, 200 cm, bmi 29.3
Finmark 180cm, 95kg, 200 cm, bmi 29.3
Combat NATO 170 cm, 85 kg, 200cm, bmi 29.4

Weird. No high bmi women’s skis in the Asnes line. Women usually have higher bmi due to height. Higher body fat due to gender. The studies of xc, dh show this to be the case too. Nothing says a woman can’t buy a ski with a man’s name to find something in their height AND weight range. How many want to do that. As many short guys skiing on a woman’s ski. Past 209# (95kg for you euro guys) the line gets generic. It’s the longest ski or nothing. The bmi range narrows the shorter you get too. Short and stocky falls outside the chart range. Either go up in height to get the weight or suck it up on an overloaded ski. The norm in xc competitive skiers is ~180 cm tall, bmi 22. No short competitive adult xc skiers. Height matters in polling and kick maybe. This is how the numbers play out for the Asnes line. Not my fault. Not the medical professions fault. Maybe not even the ski companies fault. Just the way it is.

DH skis different. Most charts don’t include height and weight. Choose the ski for slope, speed, style. I know from competition that heavier skiers do better in speed events. Studies show this too. Maybe this is why weight charts were never part of that deal.

Edit: made numbers clearer. Couldn’t tell skier height from ski length.

[Manney]

Why care? Bored. Curious. In meetings most days. Or home. Kids in school. Nothing on honeydew list excites me. Ran a few minimum numbers. Not the whole line. Just to stay awake.

Tonje (widest woman’s ski) in 175cm length, for a skier 170cm tall (tallest recc height for ski) weighing 50kg (lightest weight for that ski) adds up to bmi 17.3. Ingstad (designed for skinnier men?) in 175cm length, for a skier 170cm tall weighing 55kg adds up to bmi 19.0.

A market percentile thing? Googled it. The numbers fits into the 2nd (lo bmi) to 62nd (hi bmi) percentile of the US population. Don’t know about Europe. Scandinavia. Maybe something like 10th to 75th percentile of pop?

So there is a svelt bias for BC skis. Most apparent for women. Less so for men, but it’s still there. Skiers fall inside the charts if they are normal or slightly under weight/height. Can carry a few extra #s and stay in the charts. Can carry a lot of extra #s if you’re a man. Run out of chart at the upper end of super stocky bmis. Not my view. The charts say it.

[bauerb]

made you look. of course there is no such thing as "high BMI glide wax". I am trying to send this ridiculous thread sideways.

been working on my BMI today..seasonally optimized nutrition..

[Manney]

Yup. Looked. LOL

Nothing surprises me. I’m surprised Gweneth P didn’t blame the crash on goop. Plastic ducks? Yum. Keep well on the trail. Best before 2035.

So for the hefty guys… do they choose DH designs like rabb and voile because their weight drives them off the BC charts? The k&g on those things are awful. Worse than an overloaded BC ski because no groove, lots of side cut. Makes them twitchy. Especially on dense consolidated snow. Climb ok. Shallower pocket. Wax them to within an inch of their tips. Turn real well though.

Other random thought. Anyone off the charts… if they’re build like Hercules, the tour, climb isn’t a problem. Lots of power, can really compress a ski for crazy kick. Glide might be slower. Nothing that would bother a Herc. Or am I missing something that’s driving these guys towards the lifts? Maybe something the ski industry understands.

[Manney]

Leaning a few things on this journey. Maybe useful/interesting to others. Appears easy to find skis to suit bmi 19-25. Easiest for men at the heavier end. Little harder for women. Gets tricky for stocky guys. Chances diminish past bmi 28/29. That’s just using the Asnes chart. Rossi may be the same. Madshus skis tend to focus on narrower widths, so maybe harder still. Explains Koms. Maybe explains dh oriented skis. No charts to warn people off… big shovels, widths. Only 3-4 lengths though.

Missed mountain race. By the charts, a skier could be bmi 27.8 (180cm, 90kg on a Mr 48 200cm long). That height and weight thing again. Seems to be even harder on the go fast skis. Just don’t know if shorter, heavier can fully compress the pocket on a long, long ski. Especially double camber. Sorta like somebody might try when just going max length.

[bauerb]

find skis to suit is one thing, but how about finding ski suits? Nordic race suit manufacturers have a very specific interpretation of what "large" means, and its generally a relative measure that only applies to the pool of people who buy those suits. a size Large nordic race suit has nothing in common to a size Large Tommy Bahama floral print shirt you buy in Boca Raton.

[lowangle al]

I've heard it said before that a ski doesn't care how tall you are, just how much you weigh.

[Manney]

Depends on who’s driving. There’s a height formula for slalom. Not official. Practical. Too short and it affects line, ability to knock the gates. Increased consequences of error if line is wide. Shins and shoulders shorter. Less projection. Too tall increases weight shift on edge. Can scrub. Gates easier but speed harder. Can work the other way too. It’s why sessions are recorded, performance dissected by coaches. Sometimes you’re doing everything right… the other guy has an edge because of body form (not “form” but the stuff he was born with).

All male xc champions over the past ten years have been 6’. Plus or minus an inch. Coincidence? I never had a coach in college who believed in it. Every sport has a formula for success. Not guarantee. Excellence demands effort. Backslide on effort, performance suffers. No sweat. No progression.

A 6’ 180# guy leaning into his ski will put more weight forward and a 5’ guy of the same weight. The reach of the lean is higher. Can’t see this mattering much between 6’, 180# and 5’10” and 170#. Unless half the course is uphill (they’re all half uphill on a circuit) and your timing is to 1/100th s. Difference between winning and losing in a comp. Then a ski that isn’t ideal weight. The diff is now is greater. Doesn’t mean much if you’re out for a casual ski. If you’re skiing 98 miles (other thread somewhere about a ski marathon in canukistan). Maybe you don’t make the time cut off for the next day. Maybe the skins wear out in the wrong places. Maybe you just quit. Too much.

Searching for the right gear. The best gear. Gives us the edge. Different than good enuf. Care about our gear = care about our turs.

Don’t forget to vote. Your vote matters. I don’t know how. Yet. But I’m sure it does.

[Krummholz]

More proof that skis don’t care how tall you are. They do care how you put them on edge. The brothers pioneered a new way to change edges before leaving a turn and entering the next turn. I read their book in the mid-eighties? on how to ski freak’n fast. And Greg LeMond (5’10”) when I put together a “dirtbag” road bike.

[TallGrass]

The [Mahre] brothers [Phil and Steve] pioneered a new way to change edges before leaving a turn and entering the next turn.

Which was ...

Mahre Breaks Leg in Race
By Angus Phillips
March 5, 1979
Phil Mahre's chances of becoming the first American to win skiing's World Cup ended today when he broke his left leg in a giant slalom race on the soggy slopes of Whiteface Mountain. America's finest ski racer and its best hope for a gold medal in the 1980 Winter Olympics never crossed the finish. Two-thirds through his run, he lost control, smashed into a gate and somersaulted to a stop. He threw his gloves down angrily.

"Dammit, I think I broke my leg," he said.

"I was right there," said his coach, Hank Tauber. "Before he even stopped sliding he was saying, 'It's broken.'
...
Mahre broke his left leg just above the ankle. By midafternoon he was in bed at Placid Memorial Hospital and Monday morning he will be flown to California for surgery. Dr. Arthur Ellison, an orthopedic surgeon, said prospects are good for full recovery. He said a pin will be needed to repair the bone. "Under normal conditions Mahre would be in a cast about two months and should be able to begin normal sports activities again by June or July," Ellison said.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1979/03/05/mahre-breaks-leg-in-race/81bcd929-0a5f-4da5-a63d-cb8d71c5daec/

And then, not quite a year to the day, he gets a Silver at the 1980 Olympics in Lake Placid on February 22 , within 0.5sec (avg) of Gold. His (4min) younger fraternal twin brother was DNF.

Rank Name Country
Run 1 Run 2 Total Difference
1st place, gold medalist(s) Ingemar Stenmark Sweden
0:53.89 0:50.37 1:44.26 —
2nd place, silver medalist(s) Phil Mahre United States
0:53.31 0:51.45 1:44.76 +0.50
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_sk ... 27s_slalom

So, then they finish First-Second at the next Olympics (Sarajevo 1984) , but Phil was only 0.21sec (avg) earlier, instead of "4min."

Rank Name Country
Run 1 Run 2 Total Difference
1st place, gold medalist(s) Phil Mahre United States
0:51.55 0:47.86 1:39.41 -
2nd place, silver medalist(s) Steve Mahre United States
0:50.85 0:48.77 1:39.62 +0.21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_sk ... 27s_slalom

More:
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/15/spor ... mahre.html (skiing competively in 2007)
https://usopm.org/phil-mahre/

Doctor:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1983/02/21/a ... the-breaks