How do you even go uphill?...

[sheep]

I've been learning to ski these days, and I just have no clue how I am supposed to go uphill; I am using the combat nato, kick wax + slide wax; but I kind of feel I should've just use only kick wax because the moment the terrain gives me only support for the top and bottom of the ski, the moment I lose all grip.

It's nice on the flats that's for sure.

But on an uphill, nothing other than walking sideways works; herringbone may as well break my legs after both skis just slide on top of each other anyway, pushing my legs together and going down anyway no matter how much I push that metal edge; and I can't do wider because then I just step onto the skis in the back.

Ah yes it all works fine on the groomed trail, it all works there just fine, it bites in just fine; but I want skiing to go explore the forest/lakes, etc... the groomed trail is just a 3km circuit.

I know there are these climbing skins but do I really need them for a 15 degree gradient that's just a couple of meters long?... I thought the skins were for longer sustained climbing efforts; it's getting frustrating, because the terrain is up and down, nothing extreme and while the downs are fine, I am doing black magic to go up, the sheer amount of arm and core strength I am using, the poles will break at this rate, this can't be right.

[Sidney Dunkin]

I’d say that if you’re getting a kick on the flats but not the uphill you probably need more kick wax. You might need to put more of the same kick wax on, but thicker. You may need to make the wax pocket longer or if you’re not getting any grip at all you may need a softer wax. Also, don’t over cork your kick wax, it will change how it grips.

Kick waxing is an art and may take some trial and error o get it right, especially in temps around freezing or above.

[Yamaska]

Temperature isn’t the problem, mon ami. It is -28 in Mikkeli, Finland today. Wax might be a problem if the wrong one is applied but snow can be very abrasive below -20.

Climbing is a function of momentum, technique, and waxing. Three part problem. In the cold temperature on fresh snow, waxing is the least complicated. Low momentum and bad technique are issues for new skiers. Momentum is the easiest to solve at first. Practice approaches to low hills by maintaining as much speed as possible.

Lots of climbing techniques without skins or side steps. The easiest involves keeping the weight over the front of skis, aggressive weight transfer on the kick. This is almost like stomping while skiing up. It can be mastered at low angles of less than 10-15 degrees after several sessions. 15 degrees plus is best for herringbone. The key to this technique is rhythm between the poles and skis and ski angle. Herringbone can take a few seasons to master but it is worth it.

[sheep]

Herringbone can take a few seasons to master but it is worth it.

I can do Herringbone on a prepared trail, even on the steep; however my long skis limit how wide I can go in the steps.

But the moment I am on softer snow, nothing does it, it's like absolutely no grip at all; I don't understand what "practise" I am supposed to get when literally nothing happens, any other than almost parallel to the climb goes down immediately, I haven't found a single video online of someone doing those kind of ups; it's always either groomed, or they are using some special skis + skins and even crampons (but for long clmbs).

[sheep]

I’d say that if you’re getting a kick on the flats but not the uphill you probably need more kick wax. You might need to put more of the same kick wax on, but thicker. You may need to make the wax pocket longer or if you’re not getting any grip at all you may need a softer wax. Also, don’t over cork your kick wax, it will change how it grips.

Kick waxing is an art and may take some trial and error o get it right, especially in temps around freezing or above.

I followed the instructions and added 6 layers but I will try adding more; the skis say they have a deep wax pocket, and I am not sure how that goes.

They climb really good in the single groomed trail.

[Yamaska]

Herringbone can take a few seasons to master but it is worth it.

I can do Herringbone on a prepared trail, even on the steep; however my long skis limit how wide I can go in the steps.

But the moment I am on softer snow, nothing does it, it's like absolutely no grip at all; I don't understand what "practise" I am supposed to get when literally nothing happens, any other than almost parallel to the climb goes down immediately, I haven't found a single video online of someone doing those kind of ups; it's always either groomed, or they are using some special skis + skins and even crampons (but for long clmbs).

If there is enough traction to propel yourself on the flats, there is enough grip to climb gentle slopes. The first thing to do is to forget about glide. That is to say, forget about holding the glide to extract the most from your kick. The energy will bleed off too quickly, your stride will be too long, and your transitions to kick will be ineffective. The weight over your skis will be at too high an angle, along with the force angle of your kick.

After forgetting the glide, shorten your stride. Do it to the point where you are making very small steps. Aggressively plant poles and use them to help with thrust. The poles need to be angled back. If they’re not angled back, they’re not providing forward thrust. Really stomp your feet to go from 100% weight over one ski, then 100% weight over the other ski. That will compress the ski completely and provide maximum contact between the ski pocket, the grip wax, and the snow.

[wabene]

@sheep Waxing is a different animal when you are not on groomed or compacted snow. This is especially true with more cambered skis. You may have to use different techniques. Here is a good place to start:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2172

[Yamaska]

Ignore herringbone for the moment. Go to 1:29 on the video below. Notice the technique. Shortened stride, weight transfer. Look at the angle and rhythm of the skier’s poles.



With the method shown you wouldnt even need grip wax on a gentle slope. With any grip wax in the pocket, climbing would be easy. It takes lots of practice to connect all of the elements, the subtle movements, and rhythm. Start small and work up to steeper and longer slopes. Powder or compressed snow isnt much of an issue with good technique.

[aclyon]

DIG the heels in, weight forward, skis almost pointing up. it takes some learning, and then you'll be surprised what you can climb without skins. the herring bone is important-- it feels like nails on a chalkboard but with some practice you'll get very good at it, and it won't tear your hips and ankles up as much as when you started, hehe.

consider grip waxing a bigger pocket-- look at the bottom of fischer skis-- the grip zone is huge.

[sheep]

Ignore herringbone for the moment. Go to 1:29 on the video below. Notice the technique. Shortened stride, weight transfer. Look at the angle and rhythm of the skier’s poles.



With the method shown you wouldnt even need grip wax on a gentle slope. With any grip wax in the pocket, climbing would be easy. It takes lots of practice to connect all of the elements, the subtle movements, and rhythm. Start small and work up to steeper and longer slopes. Powder or compressed snow isnt much of an issue with good technique.

Sorry but that would absolutely not work in the ones I was doing a while ago, not with my skis, not a chance; again she is on a groomed trail, not sinking in the snow with every move.

I doubt technique is my problem to be honest, sure, my technique is poor I am learning, but I must have done something wrong with my setup because there's zero grip in uphills on loose snow, and with zero grip no technique works.