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This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips / Telemark Francais Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web since 1998. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not.
This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
DIG the heels in, weight forward, skis almost pointing up. it takes some learning, and then you'll be surprised what you can climb without skins. the herring bone is important-- it feels like nails on a chalkboard but with some practice you'll get very good at it, and it won't tear your hips and ankles up as much as when you started, hehe.
consider grip waxing a bigger pocket-- look at the bottom of fischer skis-- the grip zone is huge.
Ignore herringbone for the moment. Go to 1:29 on the video below. Notice the technique. Shortened stride, weight transfer. Look at the angle and rhythm of the skier’s poles.
With the method shown you wouldnt even need grip wax on a gentle slope. With any grip wax in the pocket, climbing would be easy. It takes lots of practice to connect all of the elements, the subtle movements, and rhythm. Start small and work up to steeper and longer slopes. Powder or compressed snow isnt much of an issue with good technique.
Sorry but that would absolutely not work in the ones I was doing a while ago, not with my skis, not a chance; again she is on a groomed trail, not sinking in the snow with every move.
I doubt technique is my problem to be honest, sure, my technique is poor I am learning, but I must have done something wrong with my setup because there's zero grip in uphills on loose snow, and with zero grip no technique works.
Groomed trails are harder packed. Getting good grip zone contact is more difficult. If you don’t believe this ask yourself why you are faster on a flat groomed surface than a snow covered surface. Less friction.
Skis sink a bit in loose snow. Even without camber compression, snow comes into light contact with the grip zone. Thats a plus. The challenge is transferring enough weight to compress that snow until it can bear the force of propulsion. The tips and tails of a cambered ski will work against you. So you need to be AGGRESSIVE in your weight transfer. Drive it HARD. Coordinate weight transfer, leg movements, arm movements. Everything needs to work together in harmony.
See the link that mca80 posted. And the link above that. Much truth there.
Ignore herringbone for the moment. Go to 1:29 on the video below. Notice the technique. Shortened stride, weight transfer. Look at the angle and rhythm of the skier’s poles.
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Sorry but that would absolutely not work in the ones I was doing a while ago, not with my skis, not a chance; again she is on a groomed trail, not sinking in the snow with every move.
I doubt technique is my problem to be honest, sure, my technique is poor I am learning, but I must have done something wrong with my setup because there's zero grip in uphills on loose snow, and with zero grip no technique works.
Technique is always a factor. Particularly if it's poor and you're learning!
@sheep, we have to go back to basics and look at the entire picture.
What skis are you using;
What length;
What is your all-up weight when skiing;
What is the snow temperature (better measurement), or air temperature; What wax are you using?
All of these are critical pieces of information.
If the skis are “too” long for your weight, you may have a harder time climbing, but get really good glide on the flats. Waxing technique can help make up for the skis being too long (it’s not that they are too long, it’s that the longer skis are stiffer, to support a heavier skier, which means the wax does not grip the snow as well for a lighter skier).
But mainly, I wonder about the temperature and the wax you are using.
This is not rocket science.
If you’re using the right wax for the snow temperature, you should be getting at least some grip (which can then be improved with technique).
Since you’re just learning, you will have to experiment to learn what works for you, your skis, and your snow.
If you are not getting any grip on the climb, then try the next softer wax.
You will know if the wax is too soft because the snow will stick to the ski.
Try the softer wax on the flat track.
Does that work, or have you lost the glide and the skis just drag along.
If it works here, then try the climbing in fresh snow.
The things others said about technique will help, but the wax has to be right, to start with.
Last edited by Stephen on Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Use a longer grip wax zone. At least from the back of the heel to 5-10 cm in the front of the x skin attachment. And zig zag traverse up to have a lower effective ange of attack.
As, and in addition to, what other have said here:
Climbing with wax often means you have to completely unload the lifted ski. Not partly. Completely! Maximum downforce on the gripping ski. Scales and skins will make you lazy.
Pushing straight down, or mostly down, into the snow with your poles will unload your skis. When climbing at the point where my wax is slipping I'll have my poles at a 45 degree angle or less to the slope. They can help keep you from sliding backwards but if you are pushing down with your poles, you'll lose grip.
Extend the kick wax past your heel. GAMECHANGER.
As I learned here, remove all the glide wax. Go back with Swix White Polar on the glide zone. Iron it in if you want. Crayon it on thick and hit it with 140 degrees on the iron. (Sounds weird but it's fine.) Grip wax as normal. In certain conditions it'll really help your grip wax stick! But, if the temperature goes below about 10 deg F the Swix Polar will start to stick and you've effectively grip waxed your entire ski! It sucks. Ask me how I know.
Get some skins. I especially like the Asnes XSkins that index into those two little holes 18" or so in front of your toes. They do fine over cold and medium grip waxes. As the waxes get softer, they may bleed into the glue. Don't use over Klister! It's a learning game.
If you're wanting to get around and it's above 15 degrees or so, wax with the Swix Polar, use grip wax and change it as you need, and carry a set of XSkins. Very few places you can't go!
Last edited by JohnSKepler on Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
@sheep I see you commented about the herringbone post. I did not see a comment on the post by Lilcliffy attached by @Stephen
If you can’t take the time to read and digest an excellent thread, there is no reason for anyone to write anything else in regards to your question.
If you try the methods described in the waxing thread, and you are still having problems there are three alternatives.
First X-skin, for best climbing 60 mm nylon.
Second full length skin.
Third, if full length skin does not work, your angle of ascent is far too steep.
I’m not trying to be harsh, but if you don’t read an excellent thread, one of the finest I’ve seen since I have been a member, there isn’t much anyone can do to help. There is nothing wrong the your ski.
I know there are these climbing skins but do I really need them for a 15 degree gradient that's just a couple of meters long?... I thought the skins were for longer sustained climbing efforts; it's getting frustrating, because the terrain is up and down
He knows about skins.
[EDIT] @fisheater, that was not a link to waxing, that was me underlining what might be the most important factor in his no grip situation…
