How do you even go uphill?...

[lilcliffy]

Åsnes Combat nato
210
85kg

A 210 Combat NATO is ideal for your weight and the intended touring that you have described on this site.

around -28C to -30C air (that day)
Swiss something blue,

If the abient temperature is that low- I am surprised that you can move at all. That is way too cold a temperature to be using Swix Blue "something" for anything- the snow must be balling up on your kick wax like a hibernating Yeti...

I know, but this -30C stuff is kinda odd it will turn back to normal and to be fair it had far too much grip in the flats.
I replicate in -6C the other day anyway.

I don't think I am following you here...

[lilcliffy]

And I think I busted a finger, now I need rest.

Ouch- are you ok?

[Stephen]

@sheep, can you post any pictures of the terrain you are skiing?
That might help.
And what about @lilcliffy’s idea of looking for some local help?
It’s Finland, after all!

[lilcliffy]

You may be a bit light for that ski at that length. There's a trend around here to recommend the longest ski possible in the asnes lines, not always great advice for folks learning. Perhaps you are not compressing the grip pocket. Just a thought.

While I do not entirely disagree with what you are stating here- I think it is too much of a generalization- and it also does not include the more nuanced advice on the Asnes site:

The weight/height ski length charts are starting points- not absolutes- and- especially with the highly variable "fjellskis"- they are generalized across a wide range of very different ski designs.

For example- "compressing the grip pocket" is a much more relevant issue with a ski like the Gamme 54/Amundsen than it is with a ski like the Combat NATO/Ingstad/Nansen.

At 85kg, a 210 Combat NATO will be cambered enough for the kick/grip zone to release when fully striding forwards (ie weight fully on one length)- but at 85kg, the low profile camber of a 210 Combat NATO will be easily compressed- and, completely compressed when equally weighted.

This ski does have a "moderate wax pocket" as Asnes describes it- but, it does not offer a truly effective wax/grip pocket like a Classic double-cambered ski.
At 85kg, I would think one would need at least a 250 Combat NATO for the camber not to be compressed when equally weighted...

However- that said- one might well choose a shorter Combat NATO for predominantly steep terrain→ tighter turns.

[fisheater]

In regards to what @lilcliffy just wrote I would like to add.
There is a unique feature to the more alpine flexing skis skis. I believe Asnes refers to it as tension. How I would describe it as a flat spot in the round flex of the ski, as it is being flexed reverse camber. This flat spot is underfoot. The skis I am referencing are Tindan 86, original Falketind, and Falketind Xplore. I also have two Asnes fjellskis, so I believe I can make assumptions as to the flex of the NATO.
If you are climbing in soft snow, with glide waxed tips and tails, in soft and dry cold snow. It would be very easy to slide on those glide waxed tips and tails. You certainly can’t set the wax pocket in soft dry snow like that. The ski is going to bend in that deep, dry, cold, snow. The area of “tension” underfoot, is going to act like a bridge. It will support body weight while transferring downward pressure to the tips and tails.
Well, that’s at least what happened to the OP. I certainly can see how that would happen. In deep snow, the bow of the ski effectively increases you ascent angle.

[JohnSKepler]

As I learned here, remove all the glide wax. Go back with Swix White Polar on the glide zone. Iron it in if you want. Crayon it on thick and hit it with 140 degrees on the iron. (Sounds weird but it's fine.) Grip wax as normal. In certain conditions it'll really help your grip wax stick! But, if the temperature goes below about 10 deg F the Swix Polar will start to stick and you've effectively grip waxed your entire ski! It sucks. Ask me how I know.

Get some skins. I especially like the Asnes XSkins that index into those two little holes 18" or so in front of your toes. They do fine over cold and medium grip waxes. As the waxes get softer, they may bleed into the glue. Don't use over Klister! It's a learning game.

It gets under -10F quite often here, however it averages around -10C

I have Xskins, but I am trying to learn without skins first.

It's just odd, no matter how much I try, whatever I do; I must try rewaxing to see what's up.

And I think I busted a finger, now I need rest.

In my experience, if it is icy or humid all bets are off. Violet has been recommended for those conditions but I haven't tried it yet. I just put on the XSkins. However, I put them on over some Toko Yellow last spring, very soft, warm condition kick wax. At some point I put skins on over the Toko Yellow (which I don't recommend) and, apparently, enough of the Yellow came off on the skin glue that it is now transferring to my skis this year in cold conditions. As we all know, if a wax is too warm it'll stick something terrible. I had snow building up three inches thick underfoot!

From experience, also, I never had a problem putting on an XSkin over cold (blue) or medium (red) kick wax.

[Stephen]

@fisheater has an interesting theory about skis “bridging” pressure / weight out to the ends of the skis in certain snow conditions (in this case, ends that have glide wax on them), and the additional dynamic of the upturned arc of the ski at the shovel effectively having to climb a steeper slope angle.

Also, in @sheep’s original use case, he was looking for support in deep snow, so the longer NATO 210 makes sense, even though it might not climb as well as a 200 might.

All pretty theoretical, but maybe worth considering?

[sheep]

@sheep I think 15 degrees is just quite steep for herringboning. Especially, when snow is soft. At some point you just need to move to side stepping. I would side step 20 degrees, but herringbone 15’ personally maybe. Like @CwmRaider suggests, traversing is also a good idea, and you can combine it with side stepping.

Wax pockets are kindof a hard ground thing IMO. Deep snow does re-shape to fill your wax pockets. Maybe snow will compress a little more near tip and tail in deep snow, but glide and grip areas are not as articulated as on hard ground.

In old school wooden skis you put tar tip to tail. That was the era, when deep snow skiing was still mainstream. Anecdote, in Finland roads were built to many Northern villages (e.g. Kainuu) as late as the 1960’s. So for deep snow, grip wax at tip and tail may make sense, like people did in old times.

I would maybe totally skip glide wax, and put grip wax wherever you need it. You could try just keeping your glide areas clean with bronze and nylon brushes, to brush away any accumulated dirt. Your glide areas should have an even black color. Or then put grip wax on top of glide wax. It may also be a good thing if it wears out, because you do not always want tip and tail grip.

I think you will do fine with the 210 cm NATO’s gripwise. However, I find long skis with steel edges a bit annoying for herringboning. I am 180 cm, and my 200 cm Gammes have horrible sceatches at tail top sheets. However, my Falketinds are 196 cm, and I do not feel their tails hitting as much each other as with Gammes, when herringboning. So, body length +15 cm may be longest nice length for herringboning, if your skis have steel edges. Maybe another reason why relatively short skis are nice for steeps?

Sorry I've been very busy even when I managed to ski a bit in the meantime, but yes, that seems to be the case; however I also noticed that all my wax was gone, I am not sure how that happened, apparently I have been skiing without wax all along, I put 6 layers, I don't understand.

I've also come with this aggressive shitty herringbone, it's not quite the herringbone but I aggressively use my metal edges to dig into the snow, sometimes it works, it's very unreliable, but helps nevertheless.

I have a video somewhere of getting stuck after going around a small frozen stream.

[sheep]

You may be a bit light for that ski at that length. There's a trend around here to recommend the longest ski possible in the asnes lines, not always great advice for folks learning. Perhaps you are not compressing the grip pocket. Just a thought.

While I do not entirely disagree with what you are stating here- I think it is too much of a generalization- and it also does not include the more nuanced advice on the Asnes site:
Screenshot 2024-01-06 105615.png

The weight/height ski length charts are starting points- not absolutes- and- especially with the highly variable "fjellskis"- they are generalized across a wide range of very different ski designs.

For example- "compressing the grip pocket" is a much more relevant issue with a ski like the Gamme 54/Amundsen than it is with a ski like the Combat NATO/Ingstad/Nansen.

At 85kg, a 210 Combat NATO will be cambered enough for the kick/grip zone to release when fully striding forwards (ie weight fully on one length)- but at 85kg, the low profile camber of a 210 Combat NATO will be easily compressed- and, completely compressed when equally weighted.

This ski does have a "moderate wax pocket" as Asnes describes it- but, it does not offer a truly effective wax/grip pocket like a Classic double-cambered ski.
At 85kg, I would think one would need at least a 250 Combat NATO for the camber not to be compressed when equally weighted...

However- that said- one might well choose a shorter Combat NATO for predominantly steep terrain→ tighter turns.

You are correct, that thing easily compresses even when I am on a lighter mode, I don't think that's the issue, however the length makes annoying to use my dexterity, since I keep putting skis on top of each other.

Also I noticed that the wax was completely gone, who knows for how long I've been skiing without any grip wax.

[sheep]

Åsnes Combat nato
210
85kg

A 210 Combat NATO is ideal for your weight and the intended touring that you have described on this site.

around -28C to -30C air (that day)
Swiss something blue,

If the abient temperature is that low- I am surprised that you can move at all. That is way too cold a temperature to be using Swix Blue "something" for anything- the snow must be balling up on your kick wax like a hibernating Yeti...

I know, but this -30C stuff is kinda odd it will turn back to normal and to be fair it had far too much grip in the flats.
I replicate in -6C the other day anyway.

I don't think I am following you here...

Something happened to my kick wax, it must have been completely removed that day and no wonder it was so difficult at times, it was completely gone, all 6 layers worth of; for days I've been skiing with no wax until I checked.