Scarpa TX Comp | Hardshell boots for Xplore | TTS kick & glide

[DG99]

That’s a good point, the VERY neutral flex of bindings like 3 pin, G3 Targa or original Hardwire was kind of nice in that you could do everything from kick and guide to link tele turns without a mode change.

Not quite ideal for everything though, a little inefficient flex resistance along and uphill, a little too loose maybe downhill.

I’ve kind of given up on that but have Switchbacks, the original more neutral ones (more forward flex point) on fishscale tele skis. Usually in free pivot mode for kick and glide and climbing of course. And lock down the toe piece for descents. In mixed terrain sometimes I have it in locked mode with the cables as loose as possible and it’s a pretty good all around compromise especially if your boots are loose and flexy. It can be frustrating though having neither on/off mode being quite that universal compromise.

Too bad about the TTS. It seems like there could be a way to rig it up to get a super neutral flex out of it somehow?

It may be that the Rottefella Freedom NTN binding in walk mode might work? They say its walk mode is not free pivot, usually that’s a complaint about flex resistance while climbing! Could be just that right very neutral flex. A lot more contraption than a simple 3 pin though

[fisheater]

TTS is a wonderful system. The tech toe offers a more precise connection, unlike any Telemark binding I have skied. It’s just when you’re skiing uphill or traversing rolling terrain you do it without the heel attached to the boot. When you’re skiing downhill is when you clip the heel throw to the boot.
If you wanted a less active TTS system, you could always move the pivot forward, but you would need to fabricate your own pivot block. The Voile Transit is too active to ski with the heel piece engaged, and try to kick and glide.

[telerat]

It seems I was not clear enough in my post and I have edited it/added detail of cable option on 3-pin. My point was that kick and glide with any cable attached to a boot is not good and will always be a compromise.

Voile non-3-pin Hardwire might be one of the best compromises with its forward pivot points that reduces heel resistance/activity. It will reduce downhill performance, but the relatively strong springs may compensate partly. I had the original Rottefella 412 and found it fine for striding in leather boots with the pivot points in the most forward position, but the rearward position gave me blisters. Adjusting spring tension was slow and it was not a great fit with the thinner duckbill on my Asolo Morgedal. It might have been a better fit with plastic telemark boots, both with regards to duckbills and blisters. A friend broke his though. I still have a two pairs, but will likely use Xplore for lower angle skiing and Meidjo or Switchback for steeper skiing. (Depending on user; my son and wife are still on 75mm for plastic telemark boots.)

TTS would need significant modification to have similar action to non-3-pin Hardwire and similar and I don't see how the pivot points could be moved up to be in line with the boot sole without making the binding rather wide and still giving decent downhill performance. TTS' immediate action is also dependent on the pivot point being below the sole, so any lifting of the heel is counteracted by the springs from the start.

Rottefella Freeride have noticeable lift resistance and I did not not like it after coming from Switchback, so I switched to Meidjo later. A friend is fine with the lower resistance on Freedom for touring even with Meidjo on another pair of his skis. The resistance on Freeride was a bit nice for getting the ski with me when sidestepping, turning and such, but was tiresome on the ascents.

A couple of last things even though you seem aware of them. Your boots have rocker in them, so depending on new boots, the sloped Voile traverse riser might be a good option for reducing that. It would reduce front ski lift and possibly grip, as well as avoiding tippy toe feeling while engaging the bellows/duckbill faster. I would also recommend a low heel lifter/climbing bale, especially on steeper and hard snow. I often don't use them with boots that have enough range of motion, but if it is steep enough, low ones will increase traction.

[fatskinning]

@telerat
For me, the Rottefella Freeride bindings are definitely out of the running. I have them on my resort skis, but I'd never consider them for backcountry use. They're too heavy, have too many parts that could break — the last thing you need two hours from your starting point — and involve too many compromises.

Regarding traverse risers and heel lifters (I had them on a previous pair of skis), I understand your points, and you raise some very logical arguments (and many others to consider lol!). However, in theory and in practice, things often differ. Trust me, with skinned skis (and scaled probably), there's a noticeable difference in grip, and I'd even say it makes things more difficult (plus, it adds weight). If you lived closer (I see you're in Norway, so that might be difficult), I'd invite you to come try it out. I'm confident you'd be convinced.

I appreciate the lightness and efficiency of my current 75mm 3-pin setups. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Still, a more modern design with a precise connection, like Xplore or TTS, would be a dream.

There's a real need for an Xplore hardshell boot and a real need for a more neutral TTS binding. We're close, but not quite there yet.

@DG99
@fisheater
Fabricate your own pivot block, you might just be on to something here!!

Based solely on images (that's all I have to go on), the metal piece that secures the optional crampons can/could be removed.
This would free up space for a longer pivot block. It seems plausible that this would offer a good kick and glide experience.

This is definitely sparking my imagination!

That's an expensive experiment. For me, it would involve $780 CAD for bindings (TTS Transit), $1350 CAD for boots (Scarpa TX Pro), plus the cost of skis and machining. All this without any guarantee of success... ouch!

Voile, I think this is something you should consider developing!

[fisheater]

@fatskinning

All you need to know about fabricating TTS pivot blocks, well at least enough to be dangerous!
https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... ck-project

[telerat]

I was not recommending the Freeride, but commenting on DG99 suggestion. Since you are already familiar with them, you know/can find out how that feeling is for kick and glide. It is long since I used them on a tour and it was with full length skins, but I am unsure if that is what we would like.

And my suggestions are to make you think, but only you know your use and preferences. I believe I understand much of what you are after, but meeting would have been interesting and more effective.

To make TTS feel similar to the Non-3-pin Hardwire, I think the pivot point should have been moved higher up (from the ski) and more in line with the tech pins, but it would be interesting to test a lot of positions and see if it would work for kick and glide. The power/support for downhill skiing would probably be similar to Xplore with the regular flex, just better matched to the stiffer plastic boots. Edit: meaning a somewhat stronger resistance and support than Xplore, but far from Voile Transit, 22designs AXL or similar.

PS. This topic should have been renamed to better describe the discussion.

[DG99]

Another option is if you could just get extremely soft springs in the TTS, coupled with the more forward pivot point. Just the right uphill/ downhill compromise flex?

Or…. Blame the boots? I’ve heard the theory that if the bellows were soft enough, you could just ski on the free pivots, not so much need for flex resistance. I think there might be some truth to that but not entirely true…

[Capercaillie]

Not too long ago I decided I did not have enough skis and had better buy the SummitCone Vagabond 106 with fishscales in 182cm length before prices go up/tariffs/other ridiculous excuses. Having binding anxiety I put in 4-hole inserts and have been skiing the Vagabond 106 alternately with Scarpa T4 and Voile Traverse (courtesy of a fellow forum member) with Rottefella hardwires, and new Scarpa TX Pro 2.0 with B&D TTS adapter (https://bndskigear.com/adapter-and-shift-plates/), Dynafit toes, and Rottefella hardwires.

Based on this experience I think TTS is complete BS for scaled ski setups. The B&D TTS plates at the most neutral setting are supposed to be the most neutral TTS setup available. It certainly feels neutral, and I really like it for downhill telemarking. For kick and glide and climbing, having the hardwires on sucks. Free pivot sucks for bushwacking, side-stepping, and side-hilling (remember, you are on scales, not full skins). More time fiddling putting the cables on and off. Then more time spent switching the TX Pro 2.0 from ski to walk mode (I basically gave up on ski mode with those boots). Forget about rolling terrain, free pivot is hopeless there. When climbing, by the time it gets steep enough that 3 pin resistance kicks in, it is already too steep for scales.

The neutral setting is great if you are telemarking the TX Pro in walk mode and mostly bending the ankles, but it doesn't work very well to help break the boot bellows (you really need the cable pivot point far behind the tech toe pivot point to help do that and keep the ball of the foot flat). I eventually ended up moving the toes up to the most active position on the B&D plate anyway just for more control for alpine turns (maybe would not have been needed for lighter/shorter skis), and for my particular mount that also moves boot center almost 2cm forward of recommended line, and I think the 182cm Vagabonds ski better that way.

The B&D TTS adapter is (compared to Voile Transit) an inexpensive way to get a TTS setup, but why bother? It is heavier (my B&D setup is 590g per foot, Voile Transit is 550g per foot; Scarpa T4 is 1315g per foot, TX Pro 2.0 is 1520g per foot), much less convenient, and more expensive than a Scarpa T4 75mm setup. IMO the 75mm setup skis better on the down as well (or at least, I feel more confident on it, and have not felt that I lacked anything). If you are doing up-down tours and using skins, the 22 Designs Lynx with soft plates skis much better, and weighs less (large Lynx is 530g per foot).

Regarding traverse risers and heel lifters (I had them on a previous pair of skis), I understand your points, and you raise some very logical arguments (and many others to consider lol!). However, in theory and in practice, things often differ. Trust me, with skinned skis (and scaled probably), there's a noticeable difference in grip, and I'd even say it makes things more difficult (plus, it adds weight). If you lived closer (I see you're in Norway, so that might be difficult), I'd invite you to come try it out. I'm confident you'd be convinced.

This is very interesting. I was thinking about whether to add inserts for flat mounted 75mm to the SummitCones, but worried about the skis being too wide. You are driving 110mm underfoot skis and say it is even better? Now I have to try it out.

[fatskinning]

@Capercaillie
Man, those Fey Brothers skis are a dream. I have a strong feeling I'm going to end up with a pair sooner rather than later. The 75mm 3-pin system, whether we like it or not, is hard to beat, but I would not give up on the idea of TTS so quickly. Your analysis is very interesting; I'm surprised that the B&D TTS adapter doesn't perform better, another person experienced the same things and switched to the Voile system (1st gen).

[Capercaillie]

The B&D TTS adapter skis just fine downhill. I am going to keep skiing mine. I just do not see any advantage (and many disadvantages) of TTS compared to 75mm (or Xplore) for low-angle skiing. The Voile Transit works the same way and is going to have the same problems for kick and glide, rolling terrain, and low-angle fishscale climbs.

The SummitCone Vagabond 106 in 182cm is very damp and somewhat stiff, with a very durable build. Fantastic at going fast (I think the Vagabond is even more damp and stable than the 2005 184cm Stöckli Stormriders I recently picked up...) and especially in crust and heavy snow, and good for breaking trail. Between the stiffness, float, and durable build they also work well for shallow snow (I am hoping the scratches make the fishscales work better). Kind of like a fishscale freeride ski? But you need to work them in trees, at least at the recommended mount point. May or may not work for your skiing.