Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

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Skirciak Pirciak
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Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by Skirciak Pirciak » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:19 am

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen

I would like to start with the XC skiing, with Back country skiing
Looking for BC skis, I came across Sporten Expolorer Skin skis, with permanent integrated Skin and I like the idea

https://www.sporten.cz/en/produkt/explorer-skin/

BUT

I found it out, no other manufacturer produces Back country skis with Permanent integrated Skin and I can't figure it out why
I have read everything on the internet but did not find the answer, why noone makes BC skis with permanent skin
What other manufactures do, they procuce waxable skis with attachable skin or waxless crown skis with attachable skin
Why so?
Is the permanent skin a bad idea?
Is crown + skin better solution?
I am not keen towards waxing...
I am interested in BC touring in the different snow conditions, seeking for fresh powder

Many thanks for your advices
Sincerely Stefan
Last edited by Skirciak Pirciak on Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Woodserson
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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by Woodserson » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:45 am

There are other companies making BC skis with permanent skins, though many of them trend towards the very wide and short for performance in downhill turning in deep powder.

The Altai HOK

OAC- all their skis

Asnes Mountain Race SKIN is a more traditional touring ski, but 48 underfoot.

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Skirciak Pirciak
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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by Skirciak Pirciak » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:08 pm

Hi Woodserson
Many thanks for your reply
Assuming the correct ski stiffness, will skin still prevent to do some turns?
Is fishscale better for powder turns?
Thank you
BR Stefan

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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by fisheater » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:18 pm

Stefen,
The Sporten ski you posted does seem to be configued to be a nice backcountry ski geared towards covering some miles. The skin pocket seems small if I were to compare it to the general size of a wax pocket, waxless pattern, or an X-skin or other integrated skin system. Not that being small is bad, if you lacked sufficient grip, waxing in front of the skin with grip (kick) wax would offer more grip.
One reason that a permanent skin may not be such a great idea is that skins wear out faster than skis. The Sporten ski you posted seems very nice. If you decide to purchase that ski let us know what you think. We have not had many reviews of Sporten skis. Regardless of what you chose, keep in touch. Here in North America, I'm in Michigan, it is very enjoyable to read of other's adventures in lands across the ocean.
Cheers
A permanent skin of that size will only affect your turn in relationship to how much downhill drag it produces. I have an S-112, in hard granular snow the scales produce quite a "hum", however the ski still turns. With glue on kicker skins I believe the concern would be having the skin pull off while turning. If a skin were to pull off it could damage the skin, it would also pose a danger to the skier.

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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by bgregoire » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm

fisheater wrote:Stefen,
The Sporten ski you posted does seem to be configued to be a nice backcountry ski geared towards covering some miles. The skin pocket seems small if I were to compare it to the general size of a wax pocket, waxless pattern, or an X-skin or other integrated skin system. Not that being small is bad, if you lacked sufficient grip, waxing in front of the skin with grip (kick) wax would offer more grip.
One reason that a permanent skin may not be such a great idea is that skins wear out faster than skis. The Sporten ski you posted seems very nice. If you decide to purchase that ski let us know what you think. We have not had many reviews of Sporten skis. Regardless of what you chose, keep in touch. Here in North America, I'm in Michigan, it is very enjoyable to read of other's adventures in lands across the ocean.
Cheers
A permanent skin of that size will only affect your turn in relationship to how much downhill drag it produces. I have an S-112, in hard granular snow the scales produce quite a "hum", however the ski still turns. With glue on kicker skins I believe the concern would be having the skin pull off while turning. If a skin were to pull off it could damage the skin, it would also pose a danger to the skier.
I beg to differ here on a few minor points:

A skin wears out? sure...but then you swap it for a new one. No biggy.

Integrated skins are embedded in the skin base so I would not worry about the skin pulling off as suggested above by my friend Fisheater.

Keep in mind integrated skins is the new trend in XC track skis. People love 'em and we should expect to see that trend pour ouver into various BC ski options in the next couple years. I think it has a lot of potential.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Skirciak Pirciak
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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by Skirciak Pirciak » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:50 pm

Hello Guys
Many thanks for your swift replies, answers I was looking for and your friendly approach : )

As couple of friends are going to get sporten explorer skin skis as well, I will collect their feedback and share it here later for sure.

If I may have one more question, I would ask, which length should I get? Should i stick to the official size chart?

I am beginner
My height: 172 cm (5.64 feet)
My weight: 66 kg (145,5 lbs)

Sporten's official size chart is:
LENGTH (CM) PROFILE SKIER’S WEIGHT KG/(lbs)
175 64–52–60 60–75 (133 - 165)
185 64–52–60 70–85 (154 - 187)

https://www.sporten.cz/en/produkt/explorer-skin/

Thank you once again
Have a nice rest of the day
BR Stefan
Last edited by Skirciak Pirciak on Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by lowangle al » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:41 pm

I always recommend to get the shortest ski recommended by the maker for your weight if you plan to make turns, ski more difficult terrain or in your case being a beginner.

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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by Leo Tasker » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:12 pm

Having used a friend's set of skin XC skis that were over the suggested length for me and having poor grip when kicking, I would be cautious about going too long. Unlike a wax ski, you can't simply extend the kick zone forward, so following the manufacturers weight/length chart would probably be sensible.

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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by lilcliffy » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:01 pm

Welcome, Skirciak Pirciak!

It is sound advice to be cautious in choosing longer than recommended when considering a waxless ski.
As already stated- one cannot easily adjust grip wax on a waxless ski (though I do use grip wax on my waxless-scaled skis...)

HOWEVER- this greatly depends on the flex of the specific ski...For example- the Madshus XCDs (e.g. Eon/Epoch/Annum) are so soft flexing that one can easily choose as a long a length as you want and still be able to easily pressure them.
As an alternate example- a stiff, cambered ski will offer a miserable slippery experience if they are too long for your weight.

Are you able to examine these skis in a shop? Flex them? Stand on them and see what they are like?

On another note- did I read this in this thread(?)- I would not combine grip-kick wax and an embedded skin. The skin is embedded into the base on this ski? I- personally- would not apply grip wax ahead of that embedded skin- I would predict it to be smeared onto the skin and ruin it. (DO apply skin wax- do NOT apply grip wax to a skin.) I combine grip wax and kicker skins all the time, but the kicker skin is on top of the base, not embedded in it.

Al's point about shorter for turning is sound- but, if you are going to be purely XC skiing you may want to go the other way and go longer- assuming that you can properly engage that skin underfoot...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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Skirciak Pirciak
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Re: Permanent integrated Skin in BC skis Sporten Explorer Skin

Post by Skirciak Pirciak » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:48 pm

Hi Guys
Many thanks for advices again
I had chance to test flex of skis in the shop
1. When standing on both skis evenly, skis have room under the binding so embedded skin is not in contact with the floor
2. When standing on one food (Glide simulation) there is no space under the skin, skin is with contact with the floor. I know that this is bad, bud retailed told me that floor is not evenly flat. They did not had any even surface...so I dont know whether skis is too soft and one should go for longer ski (185 cm for 70 - 85 kg) or trust company size chart

I read on the ski maker sporten webside that
1. Beginners should go for ski based on the company size chart
2. Intermediates should go for 20-30 % stiffer ski (does it mean body weight + 20-30%?)
3. Experts should go one step stiffer, longer ski

What is not clear for me is how weight in ski size table is defined
Example: 175 cm ski is recommended for person with weight 60 - 75 kg (132 - 165 lbs)
Question: Is it weight of the body (net weight) or should I count the weight of the boots, clothes + maybe some small water bag?

Also, I bought Alpina Wyoming boots, what are little bit too tight
WIll they stretch or should I buy half size bigger? Toe is little bit touching the front of the boot

Thank you
SIncerely Stefan

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