Fischer E-109 vs. Asnes Ingstad

[Cannatonic]

>>I just ordered the Ingstads in 200 cm and the skins.

very nice, you are getting some nice skis for the powder, sounds like you're living the dream out there. the Antarctic boots are stiffer in the back, the ankles, than the Alaska, would be better for downhill turning. Very durable too.

[MikeK]

Man I don't know what's caused this explosion in Asnes skis around here, but I really hope we get some honest feedback once they get some miles on them. I know there's already potential for some feedback on the Ingstad, Gamme and yes, the Cecelie! So who's going to get some Nansens?

[Woodserson]

They look awesome, well constructed, and hit us dead in the heart for the kind of skiing we do. I'd love a Nansen. Sometimes- rarely- I find myself in Denver... I'm going to go to Neptune and get sized up. They are definitely on my list for next winter... I blew my budget on the SBounds this year, bigtime.. Also a nonwax 109 would be nice, especially with the BS winter we're having. Ugh.

[athabascae]

Thanks for the feedback on boots. Still no idea which way to go. As they say, "I'll sleep on it".

So who's going to get some Nansens?

I'd love a Nansen.

I'd like to limit my XCD quiver to two pairs of skis; but, if it were only one, I think the Nansen would be the top contender.

Tom

[Nevada]

I'm looking for a soft/deep snow ski. This thread has been helpful.

I've considered a number of skis from the E99 up to the S-bounds, but like the gentleman from Whitehorse, I live in a rural area with no chance to see or touch the skis in person. Gamme's chart is helpful to characterize the skis in a way that can be difficult to do just from a spec sheet or based on the comments of someone who has only skied one or two kinds of skis.

Based on the videos, those windswept Norwegian plateaus look cold and hard. I live much farther south where it is warm (15 to 30F), and ski the eastern Sierra Nevada. The terrain varies a lot, but I'm not doing the steepest tele stuff. The snow is deep, 400-600 inches a year. Some days it's hip-deep powder, but even when its a little firmer than what I'd call powder, I want to break trail.

In a soft snow ski, I'm looking for flotation, but not necessarily a lot of styring/sving. Still, I do not think I could handle an E89 in terrain. The Amundsen is indicated to be like that, but with more flotation. I would assume that comes from extreme length, but the Amundsen Gamme handles in the video is not long.

Among the skis easier to handle in terrain, he charts the E109, Nansen, Ingstad, and Gamme54. I think people that are looking for a E89 for long treks, or a S-bound 98 for a lot of tele-sving know that. But this thread is obviously about those skis in the middle, or some flavor of "xcd."

Since I am looking for flotation in a soft-snow ski, the Ingstad stands out on Gamme's chart. Earlier in the thread, there was some discussion about the graphics, and the Breidablikk without steel edges came up. Although it is lighter weight, I think most people agree the edges are worth the weight and the only reason to do away with them is for safety with dogs. This is a significant concern for me. Before I explain that, I would mention that if the Ingstad's graphics are objectionable, then why not buy the all-white NATO version? It appears the same except for the holes in the tips and the milled recess for the skin.

I do ski with a dog, which I imagine a lot of people do. I am concerned about cuts from the steel edge, not just because they could be serious, but because they could create quite an ordeal where I ski.

Here is an article from one of our papers last winter: http://www.rgj.com/story/life/outdoors/ ... /21069913/

I always carry a hemostatic (Quick Clot) and vet wrap in my first aid, but my dog is at least 85 pounds and I cannot carry him out of the backcountry. I don't carry a sled for day trips. In my larger 30L long-daypack, I carry a tarp and paracord that I could make a sheet to drag. In my 10L half-day pack I do not have space. I don't keep my dog tethered as in ski-joring, and I don't have multiple dogs, both of which would increase the risk, but I still see a value in an edgeless ski. In the soft snow, I doubt the value of the metal edge. On the groomed slopes I've skied, the metal edge is very helpful without a doubt.

Other Fischer skis that seem to be near this E109, Nansen, Ingstad territory that Gamme did not chart are the Excursion 88 and Traverse 78. These are shorter than the former three, but at my light weight (130 pounds), I would be skiing 179-185 cm skis anyway. I do not think I could get 190+ cm skis to grip.

[MikeK]

Be careful in your situation with camber stiffness. My opine is that soft snow and stiff camber just don't mix, wax pocket or not.

Wide, long, soft flex are good attributes for bottomless. Skis like the Madshus Annum. If you want wax, most likely the Asnes are going to be your only viable option, and most likely you'd want to tend toward the Ingstad but in a short length to limit the stiffness.

The great thing about the Annum is it is soft even in long lengths. Therefore it could be used by a light skier as a very floaty powder ski, skied in more traditional length.

[lilcliffy]

this is like discussing preference of ale vs. lager, white vs. red., etc. I'm closer to lilcliffy….longer is better.

Ha! So which beer is it? Myself I l like most every variety as long as the quality is high...my least favourite is probably wheat beers in general, and I'm not crazy about british mild...just had a Propeller Russian export stout this weekend (new- brewed in Halifax)- incredible- strong, bitter, and complex...

AND YES- LONGER is better!!!!

When I read Tom's plan for these skis - mostly touring with a few turns - that's why I have the E99's and Asnes Gamme54's. Something like an Ingstad or Eon feels much slower to me when touring, I would be using Ingstad with skins for more up-and-down missions.

My experience with this is that it depends- depends on snow conditions as well as terrain...skis like the E-99/Gamme'Nansen are clearly faster on dense snow- but on deeper, fresh snow? I bet the Ingstad is faster on deep fresh snow...

I'm not interested in skis shorter than 200cm for anything….just hopelessly OLD school! I like the grace and power you get from long skis, not to mention faster glide.

Absolutley, totally with you on this!

I might consider 205cm Nansens for touring, they seem like a good compromise ski.

I would especially want a Nansen long- it is a stiff, long distance BC-XC ski.

The thought of skiing 5 or 10 mile tours in a ski like the Eon does not appeal to me. These skis don't have any "bounce" to them.

Well I have been doing daily 5-10 mile tours with the Eon for a few years now- and you are correct- they are not stiff enough...the excellent flex pattern for downhill control is too much of a compromise as a XC ski- hence my interest in the E-109 and Ingstad!

[lilcliffy]

I could not find any 205 Ingstads in North America - I only know of three Asnes retailers: located in Boulder, Calgary, and Montreal - so it was an easy choice after all. (Except the folks in Boulder won't sell to Canadians, even if we ship to a US address - WTH).

Well it looks like I will have to be making a special order at some point- I gotta have either 205 or 210cm!

Now for a binding/boot match... Rotefella super telemark and Crispi Antarctica or NNN BC magnum and Alpina Alaskas...

My two cents?

The 75mm binding is vastly more versatile than NNN-BC. BUT-IMO- only if you upgrade to at least the 3-pin-cable binding. IMHO- if all you need is a backcountry-xcountry binding- NNN-BC offers at least as much downhill power as a supertele or mountaineer. If you want more power than that- my advice- go for at least the 3pc.

The Antarctic/Sydolpen are reportedly excellent boots with a welted sole and a good moderately-stiff flex. The only problem with NN is that the only binding resistance comes from the boot- if the boot sole is too soft-flexing you have no effective "kick", and you definitely need the heel cable for downhill resistance and power.

But I finish with this- if you are truly going for XC-focused tour in the backcountry- strongly consider NNN-BC. It offers moderate downhill power- but more importantly incredible XC performance. NNN-BC inherently offers more binding resistance than NN and therefore more potential "snap" and "kick".

My 195cm Annums with NNN-BC feel almost "snappy" compared to my 195cm Guides with 3-pin.

[lilcliffy]

I'm looking for a soft/deep snow ski. This thread has been helpful.

Other Fischer skis that seem to be near this E109, Nansen, Ingstad territory that Gamme did not chart are the Excursion 88 and Traverse 78. These are shorter than the former three, but at my light weight (130 pounds), I would be skiing 179-185 cm skis anyway. I do not think I could get 190+ cm skis to grip.

Hey Nevada!

I know the snow you are speaking of...IMO none of the skis we have been talking about in this thread are powder skis...

The first characteristic of a powder ski is single-camber- all of these skis are too-cambered for deep powder.

The second characteristic is a soft-flex- yeah the E-109/Ingstad are softer than a track/polar expedition ski- but they are still significantly stiffer than an S-Bound a Madshus/Karhu XCD or an Alpine Touring/Telemark ski.

The third characteristic is flotation- which can come from width and/or length. In NA we tend to think of width first- but in Eurasia a XC-powder ski is not fat- it is long- reallly long- like 300cm long...

If you are getting single-cambered powder ski than don't worry about them being too long for your weight- there is no wax pocket on a single-cambered xcountry ski anyway.

With a single-cambered ski, the only limit to length is maneuverability. This depends on the terrain you will be skiing on.

Although I weigh significantly more than you, my current pic for a XC-powder ski is the 195cm Madshus Annum. Although brutal on dense snow, the Annum has a beautifully efficient flex in deep, soft snow.

At my weight I would buy the Annum longer than 195cm if I could get it.

My only complaints about a XC-ski as wide as the Annum are:
1) too much sidecut for a XC ski- would like more width underfoot
2) no waxable base- the temperatures that surround the snow conditions you are describing were made for grip wax.

At your weight an Epoch or S-98 should you give you adequate width-related flotation. The S-98 is a bit stiffer and has "Nordic rocker"; but the Epoch has an excellent flex-pattern for soft snow, and is slightly rockered in the tip (Nordic rocker and true rocker aren't the same thing- but in a K&G context- they amount to the same performance).

But for that deep, soft snow I would not go short- not unless you are going to be skiing down extreme slopes.

[Cannatonic]

>>>I do ski with a dog, which I imagine a lot of people do. I am concerned about cuts from the steel edge, not just because they could be serious, but because they could create quite an ordeal where I ski.

NV, that story on the couple on their dog is a must-read for anyone who takes their dog skiing. I had a rude wake-up call several years ago. I'd been skiing many times with friends' dogs, they were all good skiers - it depends on the dog. Herding dogs in particular have problems with skiing - my first ski dog was a herding breed and wanted to attack my skis or snowboard. I thought I had her trained to stay behind and out of the way. But one time I hiked a closed ski area and had to hop my snowboard around some trees at the top, she jumped directly into the board and got a big laceration on her front leg.

I was woefully unprepared, not having any first-aid kit whatsoever. Fortunately the cut was superficial, it didn't bleed heavily and she was able to make the run down. I drove 2.5 hours to the nearest emergency vet to get stitches.

Now I have 2 different dogs, I always carry gauze and duct tape and a few other items, but I could not do a self-rescue of one of the dogs. I have to keep that in mind. It's rare that I take them out for downhill turns. I'm going to buy some 200cm Breidablikk eventually. Would be perfect for Sierra powder. As long as the snow is soft the lack of edges will be great. The ski will be lighter and glide faster. Some of the original Fischer Sbounds came without edges too.

But skiing deep powder or crust is tough on dogs' joints too - I avoid it. My friend's dog blew the cruciate ligament in her knee in deep powder skiing. I like to take them for mellow ski tours when the snow is consolidated. Or for more risky stuff it's good to be near a road or extra people who could help in the event of trouble.

I like the idea of buying the all-white NATO skis, but Neptune isn't stocking them. I think you can ask Neptune to buy something for next year though. They did not carry Asnes mohair skins last year and I requested them - this year they're in stock.