How much does your xcd rig weigh?

[connyro]

Snicker connie....if you only knew.....Figure you will never know not knowing....nothing....Have fun skiing on the UP as that's where Boots comes from.....Thought it was all cc skiing up there....TM

It's "skiing IN the UP" not "on the UP". And shame on "Boots" for not knowing about the Porkies, Keweenaw Peninsula, Hurons, Big Hole, etc...but maybe he's (she?) not a skier? I'm from northern NH and sometimes in the hills and lakes "on" the UP, I am vividly reminded of norther NE.

[MikeK]

You don't need much vert to have fun. I don't make many turns skiing in those small bowls, just to get around deadfall and stuff, but it's still fun.

[lowangle al]

You don't need much vert to have fun

I'll drink to that.

[acrowe]

Hello, My first post on here. I thought the comment on comfort and weight of boots was interesting. I have always associated nordic boots with agony for my feet. I have very big very wide feet and nordic boots are normally never anything like wide enough. I have always just skied with boots that were too small and suffered. I got a pair of Scarpa T4s 3 years ago and it was like a miracle. They actually felt good on my feet and were large enough that I wasn't constantly concerned about freezing my constricted feet (I live in northern manitoba). I have a pair of newer Alicos (not doubles), an ancient pair that might be Asolos, and 75mm Alpina Blazers (that I ordered out of the US because they were 14s and I thought that would fit - nope they are too skinny).
The T4s are heavy, especially in the largest size. I had been out of the country at grad school for a decade and hadnt really skied much for years. I had sort of missed the giant heavy telemark thing, I knew about it but hadnt actually handled the gear. I ordered the T4s from MEC and they say on their website "These are reminiscent of old leather boots, in that they're flexible, light..." - I was stunned they seemed like downhill boots when I got them out of the box and I didnt actually think I would keep them.

I put them on and they were actually comfortable. I skied in them and they were comfortable although they felt big. I was using them with a very old ski with light 75mm bindings. At home I ski trails that are mostly flat or with some short steep hills but generally not tracked. I loved skiing in them, I tried the Alicos which I had been wearing all over to stretch a bit - I just didnt find them as comfortable and I didnt see that I was that much more efficient.
I now use the T4s for everything and totally love them, I have never been more comfortable in ski boots of any sort and they are warm at -35 C. When I say I use them for everything I mean everything, at home I use them with Fischer E89 and Voile 3pin. I use them touring with Vokl Qanik and Voile 3pin cable, or BD kilowatt and G3 Targa. I have used them skiing tracked trails at Canmore nordic center lots as we go to canmore regularly to get our touring fix. I also use them for lift based skiing with either of my touring skis. I really love them and I find that when skiing with people using ligher xc gear I have no trouble keeping up (I am sure someone who was really fast and efficient would blow me away though). I kick and glide pretty well and I don't really notice the weight. I would take the weight any day for the comfort and control, but I might also have a really different view because I am a reasonably fit 6'4" and 270lbs.

[MikeK]

Hey ac,

I've heard this from other people with big feet as well, but it boggles my mind. I have an average sized (length) foot but plastic boots have always given me troubles.

I've also tried different sized Scarpa boots in leather and the T4 and they are totally different. Scarpa leathers actually fit me pretty good. For a T4 for work for me I'd need a custom liner and probably a little stretching of the shell. The width can be troublesome for me, but my instep is large as well... that can be a real killer in terms of arch pain. Most laced boots allow that part to stretch and conform, and that's why I think I have little issue with leather except getting the width right. If I have straps and really crank down the instep buckle, I can make a leather boot hurt me as much as plastic usually does, or at least cramp in the same area.

Boots are a pain, literally. If you find something that works, stick with it.

[bgregoire]

Hello, My first post on here. I thought the comment on comfort and weight of boots was interesting. I have always associated nordic boots with agony for my feet. I have very big very wide feet and nordic boots are normally never anything like wide enough. I have always just skied with boots that were too small and suffered. I got a pair of Scarpa T4s 3 years ago and it was like a miracle. They actually felt good on my feet and were large enough that I wasn't constantly concerned about freezing my constricted feet (I live in northern manitoba). I have a pair of newer Alicos (not doubles), an ancient pair that might be Asolos, and 75mm Alpina Blazers (that I ordered out of the US because they were 14s and I thought that would fit - nope they are too skinny).
The T4s are heavy, especially in the largest size. I had been out of the country at grad school for a decade and hadnt really skied much for years. I had sort of missed the giant heavy telemark thing, I knew about it but hadnt actually handled the gear. I ordered the T4s from MEC and they say on their website "These are reminiscent of old leather boots, in that they're flexible, light..." - I was stunned they seemed like downhill boots when I got them out of the box and I didnt actually think I would keep them.

I put them on and they were actually comfortable. I skied in them and they were comfortable although they felt big. I was using them with a very old ski with light 75mm bindings. At home I ski trails that are mostly flat or with some short steep hills but generally not tracked. I loved skiing in them, I tried the Alicos which I had been wearing all over to stretch a bit - I just didnt find them as comfortable and I didnt see that I was that much more efficient.
I now use the T4s for everything and totally love them, I have never been more comfortable in ski boots of any sort and they are warm at -35 C. When I say I use them for everything I mean everything, at home I use them with Fischer E89 and Voile 3pin. I use them touring with Vokl Qanik and Voile 3pin cable, or BD kilowatt and G3 Targa. I have used them skiing tracked trails at Canmore nordic center lots as we go to canmore regularly to get our touring fix. I also use them for lift based skiing with either of my touring skis. I really love them and I find that when skiing with people using ligher xc gear I have no trouble keeping up (I am sure someone who was really fast and efficient would blow me away though). I kick and glide pretty well and I don't really notice the weight. I would take the weight any day for the comfort and control, but I might also have a really different view because I am a reasonably fit 6'4" and 270lbs.

Welcome Acrowe!
Well, as a wide-foot TTalk resident who has tried MANY boots, I can say with confidence that if you like the T4s, you should LOVE the Excursions (wider or at least roomier) with intuition liners. Leatherwise, NOTHING i have tried beats Alfa boots. I usually go a size up with XC boots to accomodate my wider foot, but with the Alfas, I have actually go my real size (which feels much better as they bend in the right spot).

[connyro]

for years. I had sort of missed the giant heavy telemark thing, I knew about it but hadnt actually handled the gear. I ordered the T4s from MEC and they say on their website "These are reminiscent of old leather boots, in that they're flexible, light..." - I was stunned they seemed like downhill boots when I got them out of the box and I didnt actually think I would keep them.

That's the thing with boots like T4s and Excursions. They LOOK like downhill boots but they (especially the Excursions) are actually not even close. They are low-cuffed, soft tongued, flexible, comfortable, warm, and powerful. Yes, they are stiffer than leathers and lighter boots but like anything, you can just adjust your technique a little. Until you get them on your feet and get out into the snow, you may never know just how XC this class of boots can really be, especially for bigger skiers. For my purposes, when I XC ski, I use XC boots. When I ski in the BC looking for downhill fun along the way, I use Excursions.

[MikeK]

That's the thing with boots like T4s and Excursions. They LOOK like downhill boots but they (especially the Excursions) are actually not even close. They are low-cuffed, soft tongued, flexible, comfortable, warm, and powerful. Yes, they are stiffer than leathers and lighter boots but like anything, you can just adjust your technique a little. Until you get them on your feet and get out into the snow, you may never know just how XC this class of boots can really be, especially for bigger skiers. For my purposes, when I XC ski, I use XC boots. When I ski in the BC looking for downhill fun along the way, I use Excursions.

Sure they are man, they were designed to be a more tourable version Tele boots. How do you do that? Make them softer flexing, lower cut, etc.

This guy seems to think there is a pretty big difference in the T4 vs the Excursion:

http://forrestmccarthy.blogspot.com/201 ... ordic.html

My wife did too.

Some people really hate the Excursion because it's softer, but the idea was for it to be more tour-able. IMO it has the best forward flex characteristics of any plastic boot I've seen in respect to kicking. Maybe some really light AT racing boots are better? But that's kind of a moot point.

[lilcliffy]

I would take the weight any day for the comfort and control,

Words of wisdom!!!

Comfort and control does mean more than weight.

[lilcliffy]

I find the T4 significantly more powerful than the Excursion.

Personally, as I much prefer more flexible boots for long-distance touring- I only choose a boot in this class when I want more downhill power in a "xcd" tour. Therefore, I prefer the T4.

But I can certainly understand the preference for the Excursion in a XC context- and/or if the T4 is too narrow for one's foot.