BC Wax to Skins mod: question to short skin users

[mik84]

Hello,
Some time ago I wrote about searchng BC skis for my wife.
Locked down ski lifts caused renaissance of XC in Poland. I other words, it'hard to find gear, because BC is also included in this trend. On friday we go ski in mountains, so not much time left.

My friend gave me old Atomic Microstep Back Country 60 (mm wide) Wax skis. As there is no way and sense for me to use this kind of alchemy, I want to make grooves and implement short skins like Madshus IntelliGrip or Salomon SkinGrip.

As those skis already have some kind of veery delicate pattern in middle section (hard to feel it under finger) I belive its a mark for waxing area. Those are two stripes nearly 60 cm long.
I found offer of BLACK DIAMOND GLIDELITE MOHAIR MIX ROLL 11cm sold on 10cm or longer pieces.

I heard that good choose of klister(wax) gives better kick than "mini" skins. On the other hand my friend on his XC Salomons have only approx.36 cm long skins.

My questions/ propositons to discuss:
1. Ski under boot is 52mm wide so I I think about single, 30 mm wide skins(grooves) and length 40cm or 45 cm so i would have margin for error with good positioning under kick area.
2. Groove depth- same as flattened skin thickness or bit shallower/deeper?
3. Is regular glue on those skitur like skins strong enough to stay in groove, or should I remove it and use something stronger (f.e. Evo-StikTimebond- butaprem alike?)
4. I'm thinking abot pattern of rectangle with half circles at the end as its easiest to make with router.
5. Skins (first few mm) could be flattened (melted with iron?) to make them even harder to peel off.


Thanks for any tips or sugestions:)

[wooley12]

That is a waxless ski. I'm confused why you want to cut more pattern into the bottom.
I would not want to put Klister on a waxless ski
I use skins with my waxless skis. The glue that comes with the skins will stick to the ski base until you want to take it off.

I'm not an expert

[mik84]

Thanks for reply. It is not a waxless ski, please check the picture.

[wooley12]

I see what you mean now. I had skis with that pattern. It was supposed to hold wax better.
Do not glue your skins to the ski unless you want them to never come off. The glue on the skin should be fine.
I would not want to experiment with routing scales in the ski for my wife just before a ski trip. Girl fiend maybe. It takes trial and error to get it right from what I've seen others do.
I would fit full length skins. If the edges are sliding because the skin is too narrow, you can slit them in half a foot or so from the tip back to the tail to have traction with the edges if you find the narrow skin won't kick well. Or buy kicker skins. I made the pulk in my avitar but making a kicker that won't collect snow and be slow I haven't figured out.

"MOHAIR MIX ROLL 11cm sold on 10cm or longer pieces." 11cm wide?


Splitskin

[mik84]

Thanks for sugesitons. We have some backup as she booked XC in rental house. Also fortunately we have some snow down where We live( first time in years), so I should be able to test the gear in park If just skins arrive in next two days. What I want to route are grooves for skins (not scales) for better glide and protection for skins from peeling off.
Thanks for the picture, I've already ordered skins earlier today. As they haven't got mohair 11cm wide they send me 50cm long 12,5cm wide BlackDiamond Nylon skins.
My plan is to cut them half or even on 3 stripes( one spare).

I've measured skis and they are 51mm wide under boot, base is 48mm. I feel I should leave at least 5mm of base near edges, so making grooves 1-2mm wider for better fitting skins make them about 36mm wide. Thats the plan for now.

[wooley12]

So this is what you mean. Gorilla Glue I think. I woild not contact cement. It might not stick the skin the a plastic base material. I might stick to a foam ski core. It would stick to a wood core.

[mik84]

I have no experience with skins. SkiTour seller told me that factory glue on skins should have very good adhesion. From what I can see on Youtube, mini skins for XC are aplicated with assistance of some extra heat - with heatgun (Madshus) or Ski iron (Salomon). There is also solution where skins are factory glued to kind of same shape plate semi elastic plate with magnets(?) And using kind of little hook/key helps to take them off,. So the adhesion isn't that strong, but also quite stiff plate makes it impossible to peel off( roll off).

Wooley12, are those Your photos? Do those double skins (Fischer easy skin?) differ from ski tour skins - have they got stronger/thinner glue layer? There is no groove on ski base, right?
Did You ever peel it off by accident ( rock, stick, cone etc.)?
Thanks

PS Using router to groove base I believe depth won't be more than ski base center line, just deep enough to hide glue and some skin core fabric thickness.

[wooley12]

Those are not my pictures. Got them on the internet.

Touring skins that you put on when you go up and take off when you ski down have a temporary "glue". More like sticky gum. The skis the have the two narrow skins were popular once. The strips were glued into a grove routed into the base. Both skis have the hairs laying down pointing to the back of the ski. I hope that helps.

[mik84]

We came back from ski trip. Skins were deliveried with some delay so there was no time for corrections.
I've tried to keep with the plan and route middle section of base leaving few mm on both sides near the edges.
Because ski was quite old, base was already comming off the edge wall, so those narrow stips of base left after routing the rest starded coming off. I had to remove them, so skins are full width of the base.
Second downside was that I had reached metal plate under the base, and still groves weren't deep enough to hide skins deep enough, so they about 2/3 way under base plane. Before taking picture I've already removed skin and safety sealing (black cofix) so it's put on just to show the concept.

Grip is, I very good. I had just few XC/BC skis on feet (none with skins before) and grip is probably better than on mine new E99. Downhill is poor, so is glide. I had no problem to keep up with friends who had rather medium peace in rolling terrain. Gouing uphill was very comfortable. But on few longer downhill parts I was quickly reachng top speed and rest of team had to wait.

My plan for now is to remove quite thick skin glue layer and use some other (non reusable) glue. I want it to hold strong in winter conditions, and make it possible to tear off when skins will be used. Does anyone know what type of glue is one used on BC/XC short skins like IntelliGrip, Easy Skin etc?? It's comming of quite good afer heating up, and that would be the best for me.