wide waxless skis

[QuentinDemo]

Thanks for the great recommendation to pick up a pair of waxless Ingstads, which were tons of fun this past season. Fortunately/unfortunately, as you also correctly predicted, I've now become desperate for more gear and would love advice on a set of wider waxless skis for more downhill work next season.

By way of background, I'm skiing mostly in the Tahoe area, so deep, warm snow that's tough to wax for. I come from a classic XC background with limited DH skills, and I found there was quite a bit of terrain here that I wasn't capable of handling with the Ingstads + Alfa Guards, so I'm thinking that a wider waxless ski with a plastic boot would help give me more control/confidence on steeper descents, while also allowing me to do more rolling terrain when the deep, often refrozen/breakable snow out here limits the K&G effectiveness of the Ingstads.

Since it sounds like Asnes isn't going to make wider waxless skis any time soon, my initial research leads me to: Voile Objectives, Voile Ultravectors, and Altai Koms. If there's anything obvious I'm missing from this category, please set me straight.

I'd love to know how each of these compare in terms of 1) touring efficiency, particularly in deep snow, 2) DH control on moderate/low-angle slopes. I know none of these are great for K&G, but I'd probably optimize for that, since I won't be taking them deep into avalanche country or anything—mostly rolling terrain and meadow skipping that would be tough for me to handle with the Ingstad + Alfa Guards. I'm fairly big (6'2" ~200 lbs), so it may be that one of these shorter, wider skis would be uniquely bad for me. Happy to be told to stick to the Ingstads if that's the case.

Quick point on boots/bindings: I'm not necessarily committed to the idea of a boot like the T4 if, say, the new Xplore system offers more control than what I get out of the Alfa Guards. It may even be that the Ingstads are fine if I get a more supportive boot. But, I have huge feet (the 48 Alfas are pretty snug, and in any event are among the least comfortable things I've ever put on my feet—what I wouldn't give for an Alaska in a 48), so there aren't really a ton of other NNN-BC options out there in my size. Preliminary reviews seem to indicate that I shouldn't expect much out of the new system, so maybe a T4 in a big size is the best I can do?

Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

[Stephen]

But, I have huge feet (the 48 Alfas are pretty snug, and in any event are among the least comfortable things I've ever put on my feet—what I wouldn't give for an Alaska in a 48), ...

Just out of curiosity, in what way are the Alfa Guards uncomfortable?
Is it that they are too short, or...?

[QuentinDemo]

Just out of curiosity, in what way are the Alfa Guards uncomfortable?
Is it that they are too short, or...?

I think my heel is just an incompatible shape for the boot. There's a heel pocket that ends up rubbing against my bone on every step. It's not even really a blister situation—no amount of foam or heel protectors or blister pads prevent the heel pain. I tried all kinds of lacing techniques and velcro straps hoping that minimizing heel lift would fix it, but nothing has worked.

[ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ]

I purchased a pair of SummitCone Vagabonds about a month ago. They are 97mm underfoot and I ski them with an extreme class leather boot on Rottefella super teles with cable (I don't use the cable, or hardwire actually, all that much). They are probably more suitable for use with a plastic boot, but I haven't really had trouble controlling them. They turn very intuitively and I have pretty limited downhill skills. The waxless pattern is very good in my opinion. I haven't used any Voile skis to compare, but it seems to climb just as well based in what others have written.

[Stephen]

I have the same problem with that boot.
I pretty much love it in every other respect.
Your discomfort may be worse than mine.
I will say it has gotten better after 70 days / 350 miles / 53,000 vertical.
They may get better with time — or not.

I had to use tape on my heel for about a 1/3 of the winter to avoid blisters, which you say is not your problem.
For me, I found the Alaskas to be narrower in the ball of foot / toes and the Guards to be a good fit in that respect.

Hope this tangent discussion doesn’t distract from your Main Topic re: Wide Waxless Skis

[jyw5]

I've skiied Tahoe alot as a kid. I ski year round now in Alaska. If you need a ski that handles well in heavy snow, corn, and mash, if you could find the Fischer S Bound 125 (S125) at 185cm. They were unfortunately discontinued. I have the S125 at 165cm for mountaineering. (I'm 135lbs and 5'8" but i use these skis with 50lb+ pack on multiday trips).

NNN BC isnt recommended for these skis...so Voile switchback bindings with plastic boots would be just right.

The rocker and sidecut make these skis easy to turn and go down incredibly steep terrain. (I have crossed quite a few glaciers on them).

[jyw5]

I have many boot issues. For my Alfa Guard, I cut a thin insole and just use the heel portion and stack the thick wool Chenna Barree insole over it and then use leukotape on my heel. I then tried 5 different pairs of socks and narrowed it down to 1 sock that did the best...that works to reduce the heel lift and rub. It took me several wks to finally get the right combo

[QuentinDemo]

Hope this tangent discussion doesn’t distract from your Main Topic re: Wide Waxless Skis

Not at all, this is helpful. Making the Alfa Guards actually usable for me would be just as beneficial as finding a new set of skis.

For my Alfa Guard, I cut a thin insole and just use the heel portion and stack the thick wool Chenna Barree insole over it and then use leukotape on my heel. I then tried 5 different pairs of socks and narrowed it down to 1 sock that did the best...that works to reduce the heel lift and rub.

Thanks, I'll give this a try.

[QuentinDemo]

If you need a ski that handles well in heavy snow, corn, and mash, if you could find the Fischer S Bound 125 (S125) at 185cm.

Interesting. Quick scan online shows nothing available at the moment, but I'll keep my eyes open.

I purchased a pair of SummitCone Vagabonds about a month ago. They are 97mm underfoot and I ski them with an extreme class leather boot on Rottefella super teles with cable (I don't use the cable, or hardwire actually, all that much).

Somehow, despite pouring over this forum, I've never heard of this ski before. Thanks for the tip! I'm particularly intrigued by any ski in this category that I could drive with leathers on occasion, if only for the increased K&G performance.

[ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ]

Somehow, despite pouring over this forum, I've never heard of this ski before. Thanks for the tip! I'm particularly intrigued by any ski in this category that I could drive with leathers on occasion, if only for the increased K&G performance.

I hadn't seen anything on them either, but other SumitCone models seemed to be well received. They're currently sold out till fall. I can get pretty good glide on the flats, but nothing like a true Nordic ski.

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