Advice: Breidablikk vs Finnmark

[rickjamesbrown]

I currently have a set of Madshus M62 Panorama Intelligrip skis (I think same design as the Eon, but with the kicker skin attach point), and they are my only skis currently. Looking to diversify a bit. They're awful in deep snow - basically just inefficient snow shoes. So I need to wait after a fresh snowfall for snowmobiles or other skiers to break trail before it's fun. They're also a little more downhill focused than I would like for what I normally ski. I think something with stiffer camber would suit my tastes better as the hills I ski where I am (finger lakes region of NY) aren't that steep.

I also have an Australian shepherd who really loves coming along on trips. I've had a few close calls with her stopping in front of me, but no injuries thus far. It did kind of get me thinking that I should maybe get some non-metal edged skis though for when she's with me. I have some questions about that - what exactly am I sacrificing as far as performance without a metal edge? In what conditions are they most helpful? I've never skied anything without them, so I don't really have a reference.

What I'm thinking is for my next ski, maybe "kill two birds" by getting one of the Asnes non-metal edged skis that's also good on fresh fallen snow, since there's not really much need for a metal edge in those cases (right?). Was thinking either the Breidablikk BC, or the Finnmark BC. From what I've been reading here, the former is an edgeless combat NATO, and the latter is an edgeless Gamme. What's better in deepish fresh fallen snow - the Breidablikk/NATO, or the Finnmark/Gamme? Especially considering most of what I ski is mild terrain, and what I mean by "better" is mostly that I am kicking and gliding, rather than essentially snowshoeing. If that makes sense.

Dog issue aside, I had been eyeing the Gamme earlier this season, but couldn't decide if it was what I wanted for my next ski (I don't always take her, especially if I'm going out for most of a day). Depending on the anyone's answer to the metal vs. non-metal edge, it would probably shape my decision since if having metal edges is really a big advantage for my terrain, I'd probably also get a Gamme regardless of the choice of non-metal ski for times when I'm out with my dog.

I'm ~185-190 in clothes but no gear and am 5'10". In case that shapes any opinion in any way. Thanks in advance!

[tkarhu]

Of the skis mentioned, M62 and Breidablikk seem to have very similar dimensions. Cannot tell about tip rocker and other details. Maybe I would go Finnmark, if you want diversity in your skis. Also, I just like the Gamme / Finnmark category of skis, having lots of flats and XC around here.

I bought my Gamme from a guy who got a dog and switched to Finnmark then. I am your size (5"10, 180 lbs) and Gamme 200 cm is optimal with ski boots & winter clothes accordind to a "baywatch mode" paper test. That might vary across pairs of skis, but I believe 200 cm Finnmark would work for you.

In fresh fallen 15-20 cm and even deeper dry snow, Gamme should kick & glide easily. With 15-20 cm, even 44 mm track skis work well.

In 15-20 cm wet new snow, I did a 2 km round last weekend with Åsnes Ragos + mohair kicker skins, very similar to Gammes. That was mainly running with skis on, without any glide.

What is deep snow where you live?

[John_XCD]

I have both! I am ~180lbs and have breidablikk in 200cm and finnmark in 210

The breidablikk I love for soft snow powder skiing in rolling terrain (Utah). Tips are not rockered but soft and the skis flex nicely for turns (able to telemark the fall line in these skis, unlike breidablikk). I am happy with trail breaking here in soft snow.

The finnmark I use more for XC terrain. Not really a turning ski (esp in the 210 length), but will arc and swoop in open terrain. Really nice kick and glide skiing on more consolidated snow or at least a firm base with 6-8 inches of powder or so on top. I prefer the breidablikk for true trail breaking in deep (1-2ft+) powder due to better float.

I agree finnmark will suit your goals of kick and glide effeciency on mellow terrain-- unless you really are looking to break trail in 2 ft+ powder in which case you may want something wider.

There is another thread re dog skiing and metal edges etc. In my opinion you wont miss them on soft snow!

[rickjamesbrown]

Thanks for the replies!

"Deep" snow for me would be ~10-12" of fresh fallen powder snow (or at least that's what I encountered this past week in NY). The trails I ski all have some mix of open grazing fields with rolling hills and also narrow trails through the woods also with some hills. So definitely some need for turning ability, but not super tight.

I read a lot of the thread about metal edges and dogs, but it was mostly focused on the safety aspect of the edges as far as dogs. That part I understand. I'm a little less clear on what metal edges do for you in different skiing conditions. It does seem to me like in soft powder, that there's nothing an edge can do, but I could maybe see it doing something on more consolidated snow, or snow with crust, things like that - though I can't really say for sure, because I've ONLY skied with metal edges. Just wondering what I'm losing by going to the metal-less edges. If there really is something tangible to lose from the loss of the metal edge, I'd probably skew toward the Breidablikk since then I would have something for breaking trail in soft snow where that wouldn't matter.

@John_XCD _XCD: how are the Breidablikks when the snow gets more consolidated - like from snowmobiles, wind, etc..? Often where I'm skiing, the snow through the wooded trails is really nice, soft, but the "feeder" trail which has snowmobile access or is in an open windy field can be kinda crusty.

[tkarhu]

In Finland, we do have hills, but practically nobody uses steel edge skis. Only for icy mountains in the tundra, most people agree that metal edges are appropriate. That is for cross-country. In downhill / alpine skiing, everybody does have metal edges here, too.

For me it seems is cultural, that skis have steel edges in the US. Even my Finnish company Karhu steel edge skis are made in Canada, for the North American market.

Without steel edges, skis are lighter. Lightness should make skis faster. I think Åsnes Finnmark could be optimal for the many here who like Gamme and Amundsen, unless they ski frozen hills or mountains.

[TheMusher]

Hey,

In essence, I would say
- If you need a playful and agile ski, get the Breidablikk.
- If you want to cover long distances in varied terrain, or move mostly flat, get the Finnmark.
(I have both)

Finnmark will also fit in most groomed tracks, and is easier to maintain a straight line with.

Breidablikk are fun for turning, in fresh snow and forests.

[corlay]

Just wondering what I'm losing by going to the metal-less edges.

This past weekend, I was out on open, rolling terrain, on a golf course that sits atop a high-spot in the region, and therefore sees a good bit of wind. I was on vintage Madshus Birke Bieners with a lignostone edge. Snow conditions were ~4" of fresh, dry snow sitting on ~12" consolidated/re-frozen base.

For the most part, I did not miss a metal edge.

Until I hit a wind-prone section where snow was drifting a bit. Skiing through this, I would hit alternating sections of 4"-6" dry fluffy snow to 20-40' foot long sections of bare, wind-blown crust. When I hit the crust, my skiis were pretty uncontrollable. If a side-hill - I had no choice but to drift downhill until I hit good snow again.

The day before I was in the same spot on a modern metal-edged ski and although still not perfect, I did not experience the same loss of control over the crusty areas.

[rickjamesbrown]

@corlay , thank you! Super helpful comparison of edge performance. I would imagine we ski in pretty similar conditions, as I'm also in central NY.

[mca80]

Crister from Asnes says the metal edge accounts for a lot of stiffness in a ski and that the Finnmark employ a different technology inside to make the ski stiff. That said, I just got the Finnmark a week ago and thought it would be stiffer than it is. I am 5'4", 155-158 lbs with my clothes and boots and a small pack with water for dog and myself and a bowl and emergency stuffs and handle 190cm Finnmark just fine. So as per most recommendations here, size up one size. It's been snowing a little bit at a time so there's been either 1-2" fresh or one day old and they are fantastic. I think the metal edge would definitely be missed on icy hardpack or downhill turns in anything but powder. And lilcliffy pointed out that the metal goes a long way to protect the edge of the ski, so I anticipate slightly less of a lifespan. But that's a small sacrifice for piece of mind know I can fly into my dog and not worry in the least. Am tempted to get a Kongsvold someday to use for very deep snow in my woods (although I wonder how far the dog wants to go in those conditions...maybe just grouse hunting around the homestead if there's big snow late season--December) or for powder at the downhill place when the lifts are closed mid-week.

How long is the "feeder trail" and how long will you be out past that trail? No ski can handle every condition perfectly so I just make the sacrifice and accept that the first part will be less than ideal in order to get to where conditions will be good and where I will spend more time and get more enjoyment.

[rickjamesbrown]

@mca80 Feeder trails that are icy snowmobile hardpack are anywhere from 0.5-1 mi probably. It's not the worst, just something to consider.

I'm currently thinking I'd like to get both the Breidablikk and then later a Gamme 54 BC - mostly because I like the descriptions of how well the Breidablikk breaks trail (if it is indeed an edgeless combat NATO) and how well they do on consolidated snow (though maybe the Breidablikk wouldn't do so well on icy packed snow due to lack of edges). This will give me a ski for the dog, as well as a ski for when there's new deep powder.

I am definitely tempted by the descriptions of the Finnmark because I was originally eyeing the Gamme, but I don't need to go that fast when I'm with the dog (she tires surprisingly fast skiing compared to hiking/running), and if I'm going to get something like the Gamme, I'd like it to handle all the terrain I usually encounter (including the ice), so want one with edges.

I suppose it's a bit of a moot point right now anyway as both are out of stock in the sizes I would want. Does Neptune generally restock mid-season? Or do I need to wait till end of season/next season?

I appreciate all your responses!