I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

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AbnerLico
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by AbnerLico » Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:48 am

Roelant wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:25 am
@AbnerLico :
I agree with what @fisheater says here regarding 75mm bindings- I prefer the Rottefella Super Telemark with cable (actually a hardwire) over Voile 3 pin cable for combined use XC + telemark, as the Rottefella clamp better on touring boots.

when you reply with quotes, please put your own part of the reply outside of the "quote" section. No biggie, but now it looks like we said, what you wrote in your reply.

Voile skis are not sold in Norway so I have never even seen one. The Fischer SBound 98 is appealing too, but it is only available in waxless version, whether that matters to you. Fischer and Åsnes skis mentioned here both have a short skin system, to complement the waxless pattern or the grip wax, respectively.
Thanks for that tip... yes I can see how it makes it seem as though the post was written from you. my bad....

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Theme
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by Theme » Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:09 pm

AbnerLico wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:23 am
I have also just come across the OAC skinbased system (https://www.skinbased.com/) and it seem really good. I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on these if you skied on them or know more information.
I just want to add, that traditional OAC are not for downhill, at all. Only in deep powder will you not have a very hard time. They have no metal edges and are not really skis. The universal bindings usually used with these (they are a succesful rental piece for daytours in forested/hilly areas) offer little support. For distance in deep snow, forest skis are better, but of course harder to control, not very agile and require a whole lot more skill in route selection. Hard to transport.

These are kind of a trend as a replacement of regular snowshoes, since they offer a bit better flotation, good traction, easy to transport, and are not as heavy powering through deep snow/flats as snowshoes. And you can use your everyday winter shoes. But yes, they better compare to snowshoes than skis. On hard snow these are awful as they escape to the sides, and with a wide underfoot, non-metal edge, you can not steer them down on hardpack, at all. People take them off and walk sometimes if they need to follow a snowmobile track for example

This is not to say, that they would not be fun for a day tour in powder snow, variable terrain on macro scale - not on big hills :)

EDIT: Okay, hold up, they have a new model with edges, sidecut - my bad. All models have received metal edges. Could be interesting, but definitely with NNN-BC or Xplore bindings (OR 75mm, leathers or plastics however you wish - I have managed to avoid these, so I am purely coming from a BCX background) which kinda defeats the universal nature of the system. Is that bad, I don't know. I did get the Falketind 62X for an all around pair of BCX skis, but also mainly to learn telemark better. It is reassuring to hear comments on their abilities in this discussion. But for a wider range of more downhill /deep snow kinda uses, wider may be better. I am not familiar with snow conditions in your location.

No idea how good the new OAC are, maybe I'll have to rent a pair this winter to try them out. The skin may slow you down too much on the downhill, as these are really meant to be a non-ski, easy to get into -kind of tool. Which means you do not want to go fast on the downhills, hence so much skin on the base to accommodate easier climbing and safer descents. Also BCD/XCD is not really a widespread thing in Finland, so there was not really any supply or demand for wider telemark skis, that do the same job, a better job perhaps, as these skinbased ones. By the way, they call these "liukulumikengät", translated to gliding snowshoes. Yup. We are a traumatized people that sufferend through every PE class we had track skiing, with crappy worn down skis grown moldy in school warehouses, or 3 times passed down kids' skis. Do not even mention the boots. The many norms in bindings, cold, cold and ill-fitting old boots. Why is that? It is (or was) mandatory in sports classes to ski. Hella expensive to upgrade with the length of ski/poles/boot size each year. Best part is, nobody taught anyone how to wax their skis. Yup. Think about that. So, they needed OAC to not be called skis, be waxfree and they would sell :D went well along with the skinbase hype in track skis too

The new model seems to have a stiffer camber which may help on the flats, but not certain is it even a single camber model. I think the village I am going to spend my season in, will have them available, need to go take a look. Anyways, I would stick to a real ski and detachable skins for wider range of uses. Maybe the OAC line of development is a sneaky way to gradually re-introduce people to telemark - next, detachable skins, and not long until they suggest using a real binding and boots for more fun!

Many sorries for the many edits. Last two years have been me learning to do stuff again after a few injuries to the head.



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riel
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by riel » Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:08 pm

AbnerLico wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:23 am
-a system that works well both on the flats and hills but my preference is downhill, control and turning (tele turns).
-I am willing to sacrifice weight and ease of glide on the flats for better performance on the hills
-even when I go out in Ontario in relatively flat areas I seek more hilly area and enjoy going up and down rather than touring/traversing.
-price is somewhat of a factor
If something like the Fischer S-Bound 98 seems good enough, it may be worth also considering the Madshus M68 (formerly Epoch), as a cheaper alternative to the S-Bound 98.

Given how crazy soft the flex of the current S-Bound 98 is (compared to any "real" cross country ski), I don't get the feeling the Madshus M68 would perform worse for what you want to do.



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lilcliffy
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:22 am

AbnerLico wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:31 pm
Roelant wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:24 pm
The Åsnes look very good - a Jack of All Trades - kind of ski, but I can't find anywhere that sells them. I thought the voile 3-pin was a thing of the past, especially with plastic boots. I will reconsider this. Thanks for your reply, much appeciated.
LaCordee in QC stocks Asnes- they have stocked the FT62 for a few years.
The Norseman in AB stocks Asnes as well.
Otherwise order from EU or USA.
I have often gotten a better deal importing skis into CAN from Europe- as opposed to USA...
If you can pick up skis at the USA border- you can save a ton on shipping.
I don't understand how it can possibly cost more to ship to CAN from the USA- than it does from EU...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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comradeporcupine
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by comradeporcupine » Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:23 am

Roelant wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:24 pm
I don't understand how it can possibly cost more to ship to CAN from the USA- than it does from EU...
It just does. I paid $30 USD + $10 brokerage to ship an order from Telemark Pyrenees last week. It arrived in 2.5 days after the order went through. $0 duty. Just sales tax. Came in two boxes, including one oversized one (poles).

2017 Canada-European free trade deal means no duties at all on sporting goods.

Meanwhile I've had a $40 piece of computer hardware I ordered from the US stuck at a sorting centre in Missisauga for over a week, just sitting there. It shipped from NJ.

It makes no sense to order European-made gear from domestic sources right now. My take is the EUR dropped a bunch (due to unfortunate world events) since the domestics imported it last year, so they're stuck overcharging for it.

I'm happy to help out our European friends financially through a tough time right now anyways.

Other than Veruste.net, what's a good EUR source for Asnes skis?



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lilcliffy
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:09 am

Yes- this resonates with my experience as well.

I have ordered Asnes skis from both Varuste in Finland and Sport Albert in Germany.

The prices at Varuste are unbeatable. The price on skis is unbeatable- the price on bindings is almost unbelievable.

The prices at Sport Albert are actually pretty competitive- prices posted on the site include VAT- the price excluing VAT will show up once you get to check out. Pricing is much less on skis than Canadian MSRP- bindings even less- with package deals.

I have also bought from both the Norseman and LaCordee and have been happy with the purchase- depsite the high price. I prefer to buy from CAN- and would most prefer to buy locally in Fredericton if I could get them.
Last edited by lilcliffy on Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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JohnSKepler
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by JohnSKepler » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:11 am

[/quote]
Lol... I am not young either... 57 but feeling good! Thanks for the advice. It looks like the T4 is a unanimous choice and I will check them out. For the skis I have the Voile Ultra Vector, Objective and the Fischer 98 to look at. I definitely like the price on the Fischer more than the Voile. Cheer and thank you so much!
[/quote]

I'm in the same boat as you. Turned 57 last week. I've stayed in good shape but don't have ACL in either knee - 45 years of soccer and other stuff that kept me in good shape! But my knees don't hurt and I can pretty much do what I want if I wear my Donjoy "exoskeleton". So, after I blew my right ACL a few years ago Alpine skiing I started reading injury statistics and it seems that freeheel skiing is safer for your knees and began Nordic skiing. I'd have never thought I vastly prefer it over lift lines, groomed slopes, and the crud that comes with it.

At any rate, I'm looking for a similar set up with, perhaps, a bit more downhill performance for here in Northern Utah. I've got a few years of Nordic skiing and every year would get more and more off track. Last year I was pretty much just in the woods by myself and found myself needing a little more downhill control and I'm willing to sacrifice some touring efficiency for downhill turning.

I've just put together a Falkentind Xplore + Xplore bindings + Alfa Free. I tried on the Alpina Alaska and don't think it is substantially better than my Crispi Svartisan for support. I really like the Alfa Free and was already a big fan of the BOA closure system from some snowshoes and motorcycle boots. I'm waiting on the Alpina Pioneer but...

I'm also looking at an Asnes Nansen (that I learned about in another TelemarkTalk thread) with the same binding and boot for less downhill oriented performance. That's a lot at once but, at 57, as I've said in other posts, how much is a year worth and by November there's no inventory left!

I will add, I'm an engineer and find the dynamics of skiing absolutely fascinating! It's no less complex than, say, F1 racing and that's no joke. Perhaps, in fact, even more so since the surface is deformable and impossible to model or simulate. I had no idea there were so many variables that determined the performance of a ski and how huge the performance difference of minor changes can be. It's mindboggling and I'm really enjoying learning about it! I'm so envious of those who've had time to develop a true appreciation for performance and I really love reading your reviews. Thanks so much for the wisdom of experience you all are willing to share.
Wherever you go, there you are.



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comradeporcupine
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by comradeporcupine » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:36 am

lilcliffy wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:09 am

The prices at Sport Albert are actually pretty competitive- prices posted on the site include VAT- the price excluing VAT will show up once you get to check out. Pricing is much less on skis than Canadian MSRP- bindings even less- with package deals.
I just took a look at the Asnes selection @ Sport Albert and I'm a bit confused. They show Falketind 62 twice, two different prices, two different topsheets, and it's not clear what else is different between them.

And I'm assuming neither are the FT62 Xplore? Or did the Xplore replace the old Falketind completely?

Very tempted on the Rabb, but I will resist as I have nowhere to ski it here in over-civilized mostly snowless southern Ontario . Maybe next year. But I think I could probably fit the FT62 Xplore into my life as an attempt to get into more Nordic stuff. I'll give my Altai Koms to my wife and use the Asnes for myself. It's either that or the Ingstad I think, but I suspect I'd have more fun with the FT62.



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JohnSKepler
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by JohnSKepler » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:53 am

comradeporcupine wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:36 am

I just took a look at the Asnes selection @ Sport Albert and I'm a bit confused. They show Falketind 62 twice, two different prices, two different topsheets, and it's not clear what else is different between them.

And I'm assuming neither are the FT62 Xplore? Or did the Xplore replace the old Falketind completely?

Very tempted on the Rabb, but I will resist as I have nowhere to ski it here in over-civilized mostly snowless southern Ontario . Maybe next year. But I think I could probably fit the FT62 Xplore into my life as an attempt to get into more Nordic stuff. I'll give my Altai Koms to my wife and use the Asnes for myself. It's either that or the Ingstad I think, but I suspect I'd have more fun with the FT62.
The dark FT62 with the "62" at the top is the Xplore. It replaced the white topsheet version. Asnes doesn't call it the Xplore but you'll see in their literature it was tuned for the Xplore binding so I guess that's becoming the nickname.
Wherever you go, there you are.



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comradeporcupine
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Re: I want to buy ONE ski system only. please advise ?

Post by comradeporcupine » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:55 am

JohnSKepler wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:53 am
The dark FT62 with the "62" at the top is the Xplore. It replaced the white topsheet version. Asnes doesn't call it the Xplore but you'll see in their literature it was tuned for the Xplore binding so I guess that's becoming the nickname.
Great, thanks! That's what I was hoping. I have that + Voile cable binding in my cart and just hovering over checkout : :D

The dark topsheet is way sexier anyways. Far prefer it to the "portraits" they have on the various named skis.

Just have to decide between 180 and 172cm. I'm 172cm tall and typically ski downhill in the 170-177cm range. But wondering for something with a bit of Nordic like this whether I should be aiming longer.



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