Manney, and similar…

[Manney]

That is exactly right Manny, I'm not skiing hard enough, no argument there. I do go far enough and often enough to be in good physical condition though. I don't need to bust my ass skiing to have fun , no sweat required.

Yer the guy whose profile says… “Current job is to take my recreation as serious as I did my past employment.”

Now yer saying something different. So which is it… fun or serious effort? It can be both… as long as it involves hard work, breaking a sweat, bustin yer ass etc. That’s the difference between just fun and serious fun… effort.

I did enough of that during my years of physical labor and most of my skiing career.

Skiing career? LOL. You a pro skier now? Ffs. More throw away bs.

Comments like this are an insult to pro skiers. Those guys and gals literally bust their asses day in day out. Go to bed with aching muscles, wake up with aching muscles, and do it again. Pound the pistes to the point of muscle tears and stress fractures. Recover from injury by doubling down on training. Sweat and bleed for every second taken off ETs.

Just to have some idiot come along while cradling a bottle of hooch and talk tough about their skiing career.

[lowangle al]

Mannie, when it comes to hard work, you don't have a clue. You work from home, don't ya? When I say I take it serious, that just meant that I take every opportunity to get out there. If it's a good day to recreate, I'm gonna be out there recreating. I try not to miss a day. Just like my job, I don't call in. I figure I should be just as loyal to myself as I was to my employers. In my first year of retirement I got in over 100 days skiing and almost 150 days canoeing, fishing, hiking or a combination of there of.

I'm not here to bust my ass. My goal is not to waste my time.

[Manney]

If yer not busting your ass, then yer not staying fit, building muscle, developing skills. Cruising, going thru the motions. Lots of recreational skiers do that… nothing the matter with it… it is what it is.

But is sure as hell isn’t “heavy”, “hard”, “performance” or “serious” skiing. Just skiing without all the bullshit adjectives.

[TallGrass]

SKI LIFTS

I happily use ski lifts to downhill with telemark gear (Nordic, tele', ...).

You see, I have the skills to UPhill or XC across the FLATS.
I can work out at a gym or do other activities year-round to keep in shape or improve, build my muscle, cardio, and flexibility. (Namaste, ya'll!)

However,
there is a seasonally-limited period for snow (winter),
geographical limitations for me accessing it (midwest, Florida, etc.),
localized variations for the slope angle I want to work with (try getting glide on 1-3% road grades with sun-softened snow),
and limited hours in a day I can devote to skiing with tele' gear in whatever flavor (I know, getting 8-hours of sleep is so...).

Ski lifts allow me to get more "vert" and miles working on my downhill skills.
On days where I ascended 1,000', 2,000' or more, I only got one pass "down the slope."
Using a lift for "laps" I can get in 10,000', 20,000' or more of descent.
They let me work on my thinnest telemark-skill component.

Sure, some people will use roller-skis or grass-skis and @Johnny has posted about roller skates as an off-season option, yet I prefer to fall on snow -- I have other pursuits where I can fall on pavement, grass, dirt, rock, or all four.

[mca80]

Mannie, when it comes to hard work, you don't have a clue. You work from home, don't ya?

Working from home can still be "hard." Think of people who work to make goods for sale, like maple syrup, produce, chainsaw sculptures, taxidermy, etc. Some computer work can even be "hard" albeit not in the same physical sense. Also, you don't know what Manny did prior to working from home. That said, rest of your post made good points.

[mca80]

If yer not busting your ass, then yer not staying fit, building muscle, developing skills.

One can stay fit without busting one's ass, as well as develop skills. Building muscle may be another story.

[lowangle al]

If yer not busting your ass, then yer not staying fit, building muscle, developing skills. Cruising, going thru the motions. Lots of recreational skiers do that… nothing the matter with it… it is what it is.

But is sure as hell isn’t “heavy”, “hard”, “performance” or “serious” skiing. Just skiing without all the bullshit adjectives.

I'm doing about 300 push ups and about 10 to 12 sets of a couple different exercises twice a week, plus time on an stationary bike. I think I'm doing OK in that department.

[Johnny]

Unfortunately if we don't react to Manney he'll dominate the forum with bad info.

The only bad info here so far is your fucking batshit crazy claims about me. Nothing else. I much prefer the truth than the imagined disinformation bullshit you are spreading around and recommending to the newbies here.

Anyone with experience knows what's crap and what's not, but a newbe may not know the difference.

Exactly. Newbies need to have an clear view of the reality, they need to see things as they are, not as they are imagined by someone who has been skiing only one system for several decades. They need to see the big picture, the way it really is. The old man rut is worthless. Hence the reason I always tell the newbies to never trust a guy who keeps recommending T4s and pins all the time because he doesn't know any better. It's 2023, not 1993.

Manney has a choice in how he participates; so far, it seems to mostly antagonize and agitate

Sometimes agitation is the only solution to scrub out hardened toxic rotten batshit. I liked this one:

"On occasion, civility can and should be breached in order to honor truth.”

It's no coincidence that the only time this place goes to shit is when he shows up.

Because he is telling the truth. Cold hard truth is hard to take. So hard that you simply ignore and deny it. But its much better in my book than spreading pieces of shit everywhere and making false claims about other honest and passionate people.

One thing I don't do is criticize others for their gear choice, like Johnny does.

I don't criticize others for their gear choice, I criticize people for the irrelevance of the shitty lies that comes out of their mouths. I criticize people who are misleading the honest youngsters with batshit crazy lies. People making crazy batshit claims about other honest and passionate users like you do have no place here.

People come here for truth and advice, and to hear about DIFFERENT points of view. The concensus as much as the marginal. They do NOT come here to read fantasy and imagined false crap or distorted quotes.

There is nothing wrong with T4s,

Nothing wrong, they were freaking awesome a few decades ago.
The problem is with a few of the people using them.

My vote is to not ban Stephen.

It sure would take one HELL OF A BAD MOTHERFUCKER to be banned from here!!!
But one thing is sure, you are the first in line unless your correct what you did.

Remember, freeing the heel it supposed to free the mind.

That's the way it should be. But even after several decades, some people are still more narrow-minded than snowboarders. Even after conversing with people all over the world for decades!

A few words of wisdom for the kids out there... Remember that by definition, in pretty much everything in this world, "More control" is always the complete opposite of "More freedom".

[lowangle al]

In skiing, "more control equals more fun. the better you get, the more fun it is" Keep practicing out there you young guys, it just keeps getting better.

[mca80]

@Johnny, wondering what your advice to me might be, and thoughts on my current plan. I have xc skied for 2 years, and only one season doing downhill telemark turns on nordic gear (picked it up pretty well, given general athleticism, numerous years of alpine, and learning to ice skate as soon as I could walk). Have only used nnnbc, with standard flexors (I got a pair of red ones but never used them). I know various new technology has received positive reviews. But I was thinking I want to go backwards, to a basic Rottefella 3pin with cable (or without, sometimes) and leather boots for my Nansens and the new Combat Natos I just bought. My thought is before trying the really new I should learn what was more or less standard for 100 years, to some degree. Plus I like the idea of using the cable initially then just going without it for more freedom, or varying it up anyway. I imagine Coltrane and Ayler and Cecil Taylor and the like knew how to play before they really got into their own thing.