Skis for firm-ish conditions edgeable with Madshus Xplore boots?

[bbense]

One last thing, if you have a pair of XCD skis that you like except for hard snow performance. I would try tuning them to put a reasonable bevel and side edge on them. With their waxless base XCD skis won't work in most automatic tuning machines and they require hand tuning to get a decent edge. The difference can be night and day if the factory skimped on the hand tuning required.

I aim for roughly flat to 1/2 degree bevel and 1.5 degree of side bevel.

[JB TELE]

^ I'll never know! Leather boots here eventually get soaked from without and/or from within, then they freeze solid, and the result for me often tended to be frostnip at worst or else frozen feet for an hour or so in the mornings when touring. Synthetic boots don't freeze solid!

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=4584

[JB TELE]

Are you looking for a backcountry crosscountry ski or are you looking for a lightweight backcountry downhill ski that works well with a soft boot?

I picked up a K2 shes piste ski for resort skiing in stiff leather boots. Does well on firm snow. Any of the old school skinnier waist width telemark skis that are floating around the used market should work. The K2 shes piste skis have the same waist width as my s-bound 98s but I can edge into firm snow and hold the edge much better. They are not nordic cambered skis and are slower and less efficient for touring

If you're looking for a backcountry crosscountry ski, any skinny (50-60cm) waist width ski with at least some sidecut will work. All nordic cambered skis are bad making turns on firm snow. Just expect to do a lot of traversing, side slipping, also known as survival skiing. But you can get down the hill and you have a ski that feels fast and effortless while touring.

[satanas]

Some years ago I had some Swallow (negative pattern) skis tuned, with the edges sharpened and the bases flattened and bevelled; I can't remember how much bevel. There were three results:

1. The newly-sharpened pattern gripped better, as expected
2. There was a bit more bite on firm stuff, again as expected
3. Turning was not perceptibly improved, but tracking when trying to cover ground was much worse, an unpleasant surprise

My conclusion was that base bevelling might be okay for resort use, but for XCD not so much.

The SR 61 BC skis are interesting, but are quite expensive what with the exchange rate and freight costs, and they'd be a gamble. If there was a 10cm longer version (SR 71?), I'd be more inclined to take the risk.

As for wax or skins, neither are very useful here; a pattern base is pretty much mandatory on anything except skating, resort, or zero or skin base classical racing skis. Australian snow is not like Northern hemisphere snow!

[JB TELE]

Skimo skis with Telemark bindings are universally not a good idea due to the mount ripping out. But I don't know how a soft boot with a less active binding would work out.
Also depends on your skiing style, getting really low puts a ton of torque on the skis compared to a more compact upright stance.

Has anyone here used a skimo ski with a soft boot and less active binding with success?

[satanas]

According to Voile customer service:

"The SR61 is a skimo racing ski, it is not a cross country ski and it would be a very small and skinny touring ski. It would work just fine with that setup, but it is not the application that it was designed for. If you want to get lighter, I would recommend a lightweight AT setup. Your TLT is a very light boot, but you could go lighter with something like a Scarpa Alien or something similar. For a ski/binding, the Objective is a fantastic and very light ski, and it comes in sizes bigger than 161cm."

FWIW, I'm not heavy, aggressive, don't ski in a low stance, and don't especially like super active bindings so am not very likely to rip bindings out of skis; I've not done so yet. I'm too old to want to suffer any more than can be avoided.

Re gaiters: The Yeti gaiters sorta work but are extremely difficult to fit and remove, plus they curl up boot soles and shorten leather boots over time. OR's X-Gaiters were IMO a better option.

Re overboots: XC overboots (if big enough), climbing overboots, and "Boot Gloves" can all be used to add warmth, as can electrically heated socks, but leather boots still suck IME.

[wabene]

According to Voile customer service:

"The SR61 is a skimo racing ski, it is not a cross country ski and it would be a very small and skinny touring ski. It would work just fine with that setup, but it is not the application that it was designed for. If you want to get lighter, I would recommend a lightweight AT setup. Your TLT is a very light boot, but you could go lighter with something like a Scarpa Alien or something similar. For a ski/binding, the Objective is a fantastic and very light ski, and it comes in sizes bigger than 161cm."

FWIW, I'm not heavy, aggressive, don't ski in a low stance, and don't especially like super active bindings so am not very likely to rip bindings out of skis; I've not done so yet. I'm too old to want to suffer any more than can be avoided.

Re gaiters: The Yeti gaiters sorta work but are extremely difficult to fit and remove, plus they curl up boot soles and shorten leather boots over time. OR's X-Gaiters were IMO a better option.

Re overboots: XC overboots (if big enough), climbing overboots, and "Boot Gloves" can all be used to add warmth, as can electrically heated socks, but leather boots still suck IME.

Where in Oz do you ski?

[satanas]

Mostly in the NSW Snowy Mountains, occasionally in Victoria - it's a longer drive to get there from Sydney (~1000km) and there's usually more snow "locally" (~500km).

[wabene]

Mostly in the NSW Snowy Mountains, occasionally in Victoria - it's a longer drive to get there from Sydney (~1000km) and there's usually more snow "locally" (~500km).

How about even further south, Tasmania?

[fisheater]

@satanas i think we have almost covered what’s available in a waxless base, excluding what may be available from OAC. I am not sure about OAC offerings. You didn’t care for the Madshus skis, but liked the Fisher skis. That’s fair enough. You like the the Voile Vectors. Are plastic boots really the problem or are alpine touring boots the problem? I ask this, because I’m not a fan of air channel cored skis for firm surface downhill turning (Madshus 68/78, Fischer 98/112), however for other than ideal powder, I wouldn’t go wider than 78 mm underfoot. Now there are guys on this site skiing the Voile Objective with Explore system boots, but PRIMARILY in ideal conditions. Maybe a boot that is plastic, but flexes at the ball of the foot would meet your needs? I have to believe a Scarpa T-4 would be a lot more comfortable that an Alpine touring boot, but it would not have the range of motion offered by an alpine touring boot cuff. If you could find a Scarpa F-1 / F-3 with a bellows you could have the best of both worlds and ski a TTS binding. The other option is wait until next year, and hope the new Scarpa TX P is everything people hope it will be.
Personally I would go T-4 with a Voile SB or SBx2. You want scales, you want a real downhill ski. Get out of the alpine touring boots, and bend the knee. Just my thoughts. All the best