Quiver Setup Help 75mm v Xplore

[Salto]

I'm interested in opinions.

I am a long time 75mm skier but picked up a pair of alaska xp and xp bindings cheap over the summer. Now I am deciding if I even want to mount and use them. Question to the team is if you would stick with 75mm or mount and try (and maybe buy more) XP stuff. I do not really want to buy any more skis right now, just run what I got.

Currents Skis:

Rabb 68 mounted with Voile Cable. Planned to ski with my Alaska 75 and Garmont Excursions (just an ok fit - last time out had blisters from a 3 hour ski). Only had out a couple times and for tough conditions the Alaska 75 and cable did not cut it and the cable paired with alaska was not to comfortable - had to ski cable really loose. Ski conditions for this is is usually variable - I live in Colorado, but above tree line a bit and can't time right after good snow, so wind buff variable snow is common. Should I go xplore on this ski with Alaska XP or buy the REI Alfa Free to also pair?

Karhu Guide with Voile VPN 3-pin hardwire. No plans to change this ski, just have it for soft days out.

Rossignol BC90 older version with Voile Cable. Not sure what i think about this ski other than it is a little short at 189 cm. I was thinking this could be the ski to experiment with and go XP and Alaska XP to see if I want to go this route on the Rabb.

Also have some really old Karhu GT XCD skinny skis and Waxless E99 mounted with NNN BC. I don't use these much except for flatter trails, but could be a good use. My NNN BC boots hurt so unlikely to ski these unless I swap to 75mm which I have plenty of binders to do.

I am leaning the Rossi BC90 route, but tempted to go all in on xplore on the Rabbs and pick up alfa free, just wondering if that is really going to be an improvement over the Rabb with Alaska 75s and Alfas.

Also just curious if folks are really that satisfied with the Xplore after the new shinnyness wears off.

Cheers.

[fisheater]

I have read a fairly knowledgeable poster, write that Alfa Free and Xplore was better downhill than Rottefella Super Telemark with cable. I am much like St. Thomas, and I would need to see and ski to believe.
Let’s talk about cable bindings. The Rottefella Super Telemark with cable is unique among cable bindings, with a design feature that adds tremendously to the longitudinal ski to boot connection. Grab any other cable, without a boot in the binding. You can easily move the cable (hardwire) back and forth. Longitudinal stability depends upon spring pressure to resist force. This is not so with the Rotte ST cable. The Rotte cable has flat, rather than round hooks. These hooks fit without slip into their holders. There is also some preload tension in the manner the hooks attach to the binding. The important fact, is that if you grab the cable, without the boot in the binding, there is no side to side play. The cable pivots freely, without side to side play. The importance of this is that you don’t need much spring tension to gain a lot of longitudinal stability. The cable is also narrow, cradling a leather boot. For a leather boot there is no comparison.
The Alaska 75, which I own and ski is not a longitudinally stiff boot. The Alaska BC, which I also own and ski is far more longitudinally stiff boot than the Alaska 75, until you add the cable. With the cable (Rotte ST) the Alaska 75 is a better downhill boot.
So while the Rotte ST cable makes the Alaska 75 a much better downhill boot, I only use the Alaska 75 when the snow is easy and there is a lot of kick and glide skiing leading to the downhills. If the snow is challenging I use my UK surplus Ski March boot.
This is the difficulty in regards to 75 mm. There is not the number of choices as there is with Xplore. Your choices for a stiffer 75 mm boot are, a used Norwegian welted boot, the Fischer Transnordic 75, or some Alico offerings available through Telemark Pyrenees or the Altai ski site.
I am geared up for 75 mm for light downhill touring. I am skiing a Falketind Xplore in 196 cm. Snow conditions and terrain dictate when I will go to a plastic boot and a wider ski. Without a doubt, conditions will dictate that it’s time to break out the plastic boots. So while I’m a big fan of my 75 mm gear, does it really make a difference? Maybe if I didn’t have the gear I have it would be easier to go Xplore?
I would offer one word of caution regarding the Alfa Free. If it wasn’t comfortable, I wouldn’t ski it.
Good luck!

[bbense]

Ultimately, for setups like this it's the boot that matters, not the binding.

For telemark turns you need some torsional stiffness in the boot. For parallel turns you need support in the ankles.

For me the point of Xplore is that at least at the high end( Alfa Free) it has much better support for both things in the boots than any boot NNN/BC or 3 pin that I currently have.

Compare the torsional flex of the 3pin or NNN/BC boot you have ( i.e. grab the toe/heel of the boot and see how easy it is to twist). If the Xplore boot is stiffer and you want telemark on the skis for the old boots, then replace the binding.

The other consideration is weight/ ease of kick'n'glide skiing. I would not put Xplore bindings on a ski that I wasn't planing to spent much more time touring that turning. My experience is that it works best on a ski that is touring focused, but can be a nice turning ski with the right boot. In my case this is Madhus Glittertinds.

I had these setup with NNN/BC, but the only boot I could turn these skis with ( Alpina 2500) was way too heavy and clunky to be much fun touring. So the skis sat in the garage for 10 years until I got an Xplore setup last winter. I really like that setup now.

[CwmRaider]

Due to GAS I had all binding systems in the last 5 years or so. In chronological order, in a range of different skis:

NNNBC (boots:Crispi Stetind)

75mm voile 3pc and Rottefella Super Tele cable (boots: Crispi Bre, Scarpa T4, Fischer Transnordic, one outing on Ski March)

Xplore (boots: Alfa Free)

I think the NNNBC and 75mm without cable gives comparable stability downhill, with comparable boots. The T4 boot and cable on the Transnordic really empowered the setup.

Xplore with Alfa Free is somewhere between 75mm without cable and with cable on Fischer Transnordic turning performance wise. A bit difficult to say without side to side comparison honestly. Which in itself means a lot, it's not very different.
Torsional sole rigidity has been the main limiting factor for me for turning performance. I'm overall very impressed by Xplore, especially when considering ergonomics and low weight compared to 75mm cable paired with strong boots. The Alfa free is not a perfect boot. It can be toured with the upper boa loose which gives a lot of ROM but then the foot is not held very securely. The lower BOA should have gone a bit higher up.

The Scarpa T4 and presumably Excursions are better than any leather boot, the latter is discontinued and the former offers a painful fit to my feet.

Dh performance is mostly boot dependent as mentioned above, but my impression is that the Xplore soles are constructed with much better torsional rigidity than all BC soles and most current 75mm soles barring plastic boots. If dh performance is your only aim, rotte ST with cable and T4 is still the best for this class of binding. But then maybe you should be looking at heavier Tele gear as well.

[Salto]

Thanks for feedback.

I am definitely trying for lighter weight setup with Rabb for shorter approach with some reward turns. I have excisions, they are a touch big and get blisters on linger stints, but should be able to fix.

I also have full on tele (volkl blaze with Meijdo- very fun setup), but risk tolerance for avy terrain is diminishing quickly, this lighter weight gear and tours for solo adventures.

I have come to the conclusion that for me, 75mm is still best and allows me to go plastic if tackling steeper terrain or crap snow. Maybe I can find a comfortable boot with more chops than the alaska.

I still might try the xp on my Rossi 90s, but just found the alaska xp is not a great fit….

[lilcliffy]

Also just curious if folks are really that satisfied with the Xplore after the new shinnyness wears off.

Hi Salto,
Yes- I am very pleases/satisfied and impressed with the performance of Xplore-
(though I had severe problems with the Alaska XP boot (combined with overdoing it with the hard flexor))

I would suggest that Xplore is a significant step up in boot-binding interface over NNNBC and 3pin-NN.

I am not ready to completely replace NNNBC with Xplore yet- despite the overall performance advantage of XP vs NNNBC; I am waiting to see about the long-term reliability and durability of XP...

I much prefer NNNBC (and therefore Xplore) vs 3pin-NN for distance-oriented Nordic touring- even in hilly-steep terrain.
I am currently maintaining a few 75mm Telemark setups (Volie 3pin-cable/hardwire; Rotte SuperTelemark w cable)- due to wanting to use a plastic Telemark boot.

For many skiers- Xplore is certainly a suitable replacement for a 3pin-cable binding + leather touring boot. Without a modern plastic Telemark XP boot- Xplore is clearly not a replacement for 3pin-cable bindings + plastic Telemark boot.

For example- you mentioned the Rabb 68- which I have and love(!!). I have XP mounted on this ski. I have no interest in using this ski with a plastic Telemark boot- for a number of reasons- including the design of the ski; but also the reality of my local touring conditions. I don't need a plastic Telemark boot to downhill ski with my Rabb when the local conditions are ideal- I don't find the Rabb a great choice- in general- when the conidtions are poor- and the local wooded downhill conditions are fairly dangerous when the conditions are not great; making trail skiing the best experience when conditions are not great.

If I was touring in big mountains, and/or above treeline- at higher elevation/latitude- my choices would likely be different...

[Kneedle Drop]

@lilcliffy , I am pleased to hear you have been satisfied with the Xplore bindings on your Rabb 68. I recently mounted Xplores on my Hok 145s (with the new Alpina Pioneer Pro), and I was very disappointed by the lack of control. It felt like I was mounted to the skis with snorkeling flippers. Some qualifiers to my experience should be mentioned. First, the conditions were awful. Not a lot of snow and tons of ice. It was a bad day for backcountry skiing. Second, the Hoks are much wider at waist than the Rabbs. The Hoks are 110cm underfoot, so mounting these with Xplores may have been a foolish notion. I was just so disappointed with the combination of T4s and 3-pin. It felt like I had bricks on my feet. The Xplore setup definitely makes me feel lighter on my feet, which is great for crunching miles in the trees, but I think I will have to switch back to 75mm if I plan to do much downhill.

Anyway, the point of all that is to say I was concerned that I would not have sufficient control with the Xplore bindings if I were to mount them on something like the Falketind 62 or Ingstad. Your comments have made me realize that I was probably setting the Xplores up to fail, and they might do just fine on other skis.

Another experience had also shaken my confidence in Xplore as a XCD option. I had a lengthy conversation with one of the salespeople at Norseman to ask about their Asnes skis, and he recommended against mounting Xplore on the Rabb 68 and the Falketind 62. This surprised me because I was sure I had read that the Falketind 62 had been redesigned to work with Xplore. I don't mention this to contradict you but rather to say I am glad I didn't make a decision about my next setup based on these two experiences alone.