Which ski for steep downhill narrow trails with a 50 lbm backpack

[blitzskier]

poledrag.jpeg

what book is that from?

[peterindc]

See the thread on Hoks in the Whites. I tried Hoks recently and those plus a long pole might really be your ticket. I did not find them too clunky to enjoy on trail and could definitely see them solving your challenge. I used Oboz winter boots but you could mount them with 3-pins.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6520

[Capercaillie]

What I find really interesting is @Capercaillie 's suggestion to use the telemark technique. This is something I never though could be useful in steep narrow trails. As I was never really interested in descending open snowfields, telemark never came to my mind as an option. I can see from your description that it would certainly lower the CG and potentially also result in a less risky fall. I am wondering though that it would require good leg strenght to do this technique with a heavy pack. Given the trail steepness and narrowness, I am wondering whether the telemark technique could be performed also with skins ? I would guess that the telemark technique would also benefit from skis with larger sidecut ?

The idea is to not to do deep telemark stance and move the CG up and down - but to always stay in balance by smoothly gliding lead changes, with less distance forward-backward between the feet, and most importantly being able to shift weight from foot to foot. When the skis glide there is very little work you need to do. This works for trails and forest roads because they do not have sustained steep sections. But when you come to a steep section you have the option of going into a deeper telemark stance. Also if you hit a patch of deep snow, or start breaking through crust. And you can quickly shift weight and make a parallel uphill turn, or a hockey stop. The snowplow is only a method to slow down a little bit, it just does not let you brake quickly. And I think it takes a lot of abdominal and leg muscle effort to stay in a snowplow stance. The photos wooley posted look like they would be exhausting with a 20kg pack.

I really do not like skins on the descent because they get in the way of lead changes and pivoting the skis. The turn shape is going to be dictated by the trail so I don't know how much sidecut matters. Being able to pivot the skis definitely does.

[riel]

because of COVID and a factory fire, since the 2020 model, this ski has gone through several permutations since.
Which year model ski is yourTN66? and which base?

2022-2023 season wax base made in Czechia.

This is what really confused me. These skis are very little like what people describe the E99 being. But if you look at the specs, the Åsnes Ousland is very close to the TN66, and the description of the Ousland from Åsnes' marketing matches what I found good in the TN66. Which is why I think the TN66 is meant to be a polar/nordic expedition ski. But Fischer's marketing material is (as usual) useless on this topic.

The answer is in the flex of the ski, which only Asnes seems to publish.

The Fischer E99 / TransNordic 66, the Traverse 78, and the Asnes Otto & Line Sverdrup all have relatively stiff camber underfoot, with a fairly soft tip. The soft tip facilitates turn initiation, but becomes unstable in deep, fresh snow.

The Ingstad and Ousland have a stiffer (but not super stiff) tip, which provides stability in fresh snow. The Ousland is narrower, and is very stiff underfoot, while the Ingstad is wider and a little softer in front of the foot, but still with a very stiff tail for XC efficiency and trail breaking flotation.

The Gamme and Amundsen have stiff tips, and are also stiff underfoot. They are for cutting through crud in straight lines; the tip rocker in the Gamme does help some with turn initiation, while the lack of rocker in the Amundsen gives that ski ever so slightly more glide and better trail breaking in crusty conditions.

[Inspiredcapers]

I’m watching this one with interest as we seem to ski somewhat similar terrain.

The Ingstad Capercaillie mentioned is a good suggestion. I’ve used mine on a lot of the terrain you’ve mentioned and I’ve liked the responsiveness of them in different situations.

The Hoks are a useful ski but for the touring situations you’re describing I’d stay away from them. They’re also horrible on icy, compacted situations.

The Peltonen Hunter Skin could be an interesting choice to explore.

[Lo-Fi]

...
- The weight of the backpack and the rare flats seems to indicate I don't aboslutely need to optimize kick and glide
- The most critical design condition the ski must meet is safety in steep downhill narrow trails in which I snowplow

In summary, the decisive question that I have is, what ski characteristic(s) make(s) it easy to control speed and direction in steep downhill narrow trails with the extra mass of a 50 lbm backpack ?

All other things being equal, I would say length is most important. Go short. No more than your height 175cm, or less. Whether you are trying to crank quick and hard parallels, tele turns or snowplows, a short ski can be swung around and edged instantly.


A little width underfoot for stability, but not too much otherwise they are harder to leverage while edging(especially on hardback or ice), like when snowplowing or traversing. Maybe like 60mm-80mm.

[randoskier]

- Between 3 and 10 days mountain trecks hut-to-hut in narrow trails allowing only one skier width, and also forest roads, but no open fields.
- 50 lbm / 23 kg backpack (210 lbm / 96 kg total with body mass)
- Mostly gradual slopes
- Often steep slopes
- Rare flats
- Snow types: unpredictable so all of them: hard, icy, powder, crust, etc ... between -25°C and +10°C
- No downhill with parallel or telemark turns on open terrain, only donwhill in narrow trails using snowplow for controlled speed and direction for safety
- The weight of the backpack and the rare flats seems to indicate I don't aboslutely need to optimize kick and glide
- The most critical design condition the ski must meet is safety in steep downhill narrow trails in which I snowplow

In summary, the decisive question that I have is, what ski characteristic(s) make(s) it easy to control speed and direction in steep downhill narrow trails with the extra mass of a 50 lbm backpack ?

Those narrow trails of "one skier width" sound like summer hiking trails. If they are that narrow then you are better off with snowshoes on those descents- an inflatable pair from ABS weigh one kg including the built-in crampons. You would also be much better off putting that pack weight in a pulk. I have several pulks, my shortest one is 108 cm long and works in tight spaces, I can also put this pulk on my back when I have to (like on long barren paved sections) since my duffel inside it has shoulder straps. I would recommend a ski like the Fischer Excursion 88 and go with the shorter version since you fall in two different Fischer recommended lengths. I don't think you want or need any more camber than that ski has. Where are you skiing ten-day hut to hut trips in the Canada?