Switchback rods for a 27 shell?

[DG99]

I get good tension on the heel throws initially, but they loosen, and move off center as they do. Looks fine initially, but doesn't allow proper spring actvity in the cartridge.

I can’t see how the shorter rods would fix that. Maybe because the bend is in a different spot. Very curious.

[DG99]

Ran into similar problem today, so piggybacking here.

Bought hardwires off marketplace to swap NNN off my guides. The barrels on the hardwires are too short for my t4 but ok for my alico arctic. Assuming a fix for this is to swap out the hardwires out of my switchbacks with the longer rods when needed. Am I assuming right? Are there differences between hardwire and switchback cartridges? They don't say on the website.

Also, I'm having troubles pulling the heel assemblies off either of these bindings easily when mounted. I've heard others talk about pulling their hardwires off and throwing them in their bags and I do this effortlessly with 3 piece cables, what am I missing here?

Everything seems possible as I've switched everything by unthreading the barrels. Just wondering what sorcery in takes to remove the whole assembly without unthreading barrels.

There has been a few changes over the years, either the width of the slots and wires, length of the springs, and where the rod hooks and pivots. So not sure if the heel assemblies will fit on various other toe pieces. Try it and find out I guess.

Your bindings pictured are put together with the hook facing down so it won’t come off. If you want to be able to easily remove them, then the hook has to face up. Then the heel assembly comes off easily, and might fall off when carrying your skis around if you’re not careful.

[Lhartley]

This is why I ask stupid questions on the internet. Thanks, never would have figured that out

[fisheater]

@Lhartley Voile has great service, they are very knowledgeable and will help in anyway they they are able.
The blue cartridge bindings are they old style Hardwires, which are no longer made. Some guys really like that binding. The red cartridges are on a 3-pin Hardwire. Typically that binding has blue cartridges. I believe the pivot location is similar between the Switchback (normally red cartridge) and the 3-pin Hardwire (normally blue cartridge).
Pivot location change’s activity. Activity determines how quickly spring tension ramps up. The closer to the boot heel the pivot location, the more active the binding.
I just proved that to be true by placing Switchback X2 cartridges on my 3-pin Hardwire binding. The springs are much stronger, there are benefits, I can skate much better with that ski now. However stronger springs are not more active, I had zero change in activity.
I hope this helps.
BTW just unscrew the cartridge from the front (closest to toe) I personally mount Hardwires so they are difficult to remove. I also mount the heel piece so that I can latch the heel throw to the heel piece, when I don’t want the heel throw to my boot. For me, I don’t need to remove the Hardwire. I did have one fall off a ski a long, long, time ago. I backtracked and found it. When I mounted that binding an a different ski, I went with the difficult to loose mount.

[Lhartley]

Did a deeper dive into this and discovered I not only bought hardwires with the short rods, I bought a woman's model hardwire(which is OK, I sleep in a bed with one of those and she tele's). No shocker since they came on K2 phat luv woman's skis.

Apparently there are clear differences in the heel assembly on woman's hardwire other than the rod length. Live and learn, I have switchback multiples that I can swap the heel pieces from.

Most important lesson I've learned is to flip the hooks for quick swaps.

Thanks folks

[Lhartley]

Guides with switchbacks swapped out for hardwires using same bolt patterns. I think the stance is a cm or so forward with hardwires as opposed to switchback? Will have to get some more quiver killers and move heels back a bit. Switchback heel assemblies work fine it seems on hardwire toes. Digging the color scheme. MURRRICA, fuck yeah

[phoenix]

"Good luck with the shorter rods Phoenix, let us know how it goes."

Voile's support was stellar, as always. Swapped out the standard rods for short ones, got them nicely adjusted, went for a trial tour... Much to my dismay, ten minutes into touring on a groomed trail, I did a completely un-instigated face dive. I was quite confused as to what could have caused it, until I clipped back in. Lo and behold, sane issue as before. Readjusted, and five minutes later, I stepped right out of the other ski also (sans the fall).

Frustratingly puzzling. My only speculation at this point is that somehow, the Excursions are not getting along with the toepiece, and have some sort of play causing the issue. But tey work fine in some old Riva II's on my Objectives. Still a mystery.

[DG99]

"Good luck with the shorter rods Phoenix, let us know how it goes."

Voile's support was stellar, as always. Swapped out the standard rods for short ones, got them nicely adjusted, went for a trial tour... Much to my dismay, ten minutes into touring on a groomed trail, I did a completely un-instigated face dive. I was quite confused as to what could have caused it, until I clipped back in. Lo and behold, sane issue as before. Readjusted, and five minutes later, I stepped right out of the other ski also (sans the fall).

Frustratingly puzzling. My only speculation at this point is that somehow, the Excursions are not getting along with the toepiece, and have some sort of play causing the issue. But tey work fine in some old Riva II's on my Objectives. Still a mystery.

Mystery for sure. I’d guess maybe the boots are touching the spring cylinders and rubbing along them, turning and loosening them. You could try bench testing to see if it is happening.

Or, something to do with the threads inside the spring cartridges let them turn too easily so they tend to loosen. Mine are quite stiff to turn. Not sure if it’s some kind of sticky grease in there or tighter thread tolerances in mine. (I have two pair, one is several years old). You might add some dense grease, loc-tite, or peanut butter to the threads. OK maybe not peanut butter. Or, see if Voile will send you new heel assemblies with new cartridges.

This used to be a problem on some other bindings, I think Rotty or Black Diamond. I kind of remember some binding even had a lock nut to solve this problem.

[phoenix]

I checked for rubbing, and don't see any issues there. The cartridges do turn easily (the threads do arrive greased) though. I've had some movement with those older BD's, ended up wrapping a bit of duct tape where the cartridge meets the cable. I think Loc-Tite could be problematic if any readjustment was necessary; definite potential for gunking up issues. I might try some duct tape on these and see what happens.

There were lock nuts on the early Riva's and Chili's, but they were for securing the cables to the spring assembly. Loc-tite was good on those threads.

[DG99]

Let us know if ever you get it sorted! I have no problem yet use them much looser than the suggested pre load with T4s