Ski For Medium Length Tours

[JohnSKepler]

Over the past four winters I’ve gone from beginning with cross country skiing for the first time through expanding my XC quiver, moving into XCd to xcD and this past winter into downhill tele with heavier gear. There’s a blown ACL in there that I have been forced to work around. I’ve made gear mistakes along the way, tried to progress too fast at times, and experimented with different skis, boots, bindings, skins, and waxes. I’ve learned a lot and am hoping to continue that trend this year.

Last year I moved from cross country bindings (Xplore) to heavier gear, F1 and TXPro with Transit bindings and felt like I was linking turns and doing well on greens and easy blues. I had enough control to pick my way down harder slopes but it wasn’t much fun.

Along the way I found that I just wasn’t strong enough to tele for long at a resort as my technique would start to degrade pretty quickly. I’ve committed to being in better shape this year and am doing a lot of weight training and cycling. I’m not sure I’m gaining any muscle mass or getting any stronger but my endurance is increasing.
What I hope to try this winter is more ambitious XCd with longer tours into more variable areas, pushing distances past 10 or 15 miles which I’ve only done once and it wore me out. I’ll be looking for routes that stay under 20 degree slope angle but will likely need to ski stretches of up to 30 degrees from time to time. I’m looking at using Xplore bindings with heavier boots for these tours. Alfa Free boots have not worked for me so I’ve sourced some Lundhags Abisku Explore boots. However, I don’t think I have the right skis.

I currently own Gamme 54, Falketind 62, Voile Objective, and Rossignol BC80. The Gamme54 is too narrow for the snow depths I’ll encounter. The Objective will work but lack on kick and glide and are horrible on breakable crust, which I will also encounter. The FT62 will work but lacks in float. The BC80s might do it but the pair I have, at 172cm, are on the short side.

So, I’m seeking a ski with decent kick and glide, some turning ability with tele technique, decent float, light weight, able to handle some breakable crust, and probably waxless for Northern Utah’s highly variable conditions and relentless up and down. Ability to accept a half-skin could be a plus. I’ll be making full length skins. Of course, I will also be encountering snowmobile tracks so handling those is also part of the equation. Having read a lot of posts here it seems like an Asnes Nansen, waxless might fit the bill. I know a lot of people here also like the Fischer SBound 98 but I have also heard that the kick and glide is lacking with this ski. Hoping I can get some advice on what I might consider looking for. I do know that the fewer long boxes that arrive at the doorstep, the better my relationship with my wife seems to be so, I want to avoid trial and error!

[lilcliffy]

Hey John,

Let me see if I have your objectives:
- distance-focused backcountry tours
- Nordic touring ski- with some climbing and turning performance
- highly variable snow conditions- including deep snow and breakable crust
- waxless scales
- kicker skin insert
- Nordic backcountry touring boot

My #1 recommendation(s)-
Fischer Traverse 78/Excursion 88

Excursion 88 over 78 if-
- flotation and stabilty are more important than weight and speed;
- one is a heavier skier (and/or is carrying significant weight)

As a note-
I used my Fischer 88 last winter more than I ever have- due to an unusually extended season of highly variable weather and snow conditions- including very high but variable snow-ice-rain precipitation- coupled with cold nights and mild days.
Fantastic ski-
slower than the 78- fo shu- but, more versatile if one is regularly dealing with deep and/or unstable snow.
Gareth
.......
The Nansen WL works best if one is using it in combination with grip wax.

[JohnSKepler]

Hey John,

Let me see if I have your objectives:
- distance-focused backcountry tours
- Nordic touring ski- with some climbing and turning performance
- highly variable snow conditions- including deep snow and breakable crust
- waxless scales
- kicker skin insert
- Nordic bacountry touring boot

Exactly, Gareth! And thank you for time. A ski that can do all of this will take me anywhere around here except in tracks or steeps and I have other skis for that.

My #1 recommendation(s)-
Fischer Traverse 78/Excursion 88

Excursion 88 over 78 if-
- flotation and stabilty are more important than weight and speed;
- one is a heavier skier (and/or is carrying significant weight)

I've been running into problems with float but that's going to be very winter dependent. We could have a winter like 22/23 with record snow when I had to go home a few times because I was sinking to my crotch or, we could have a winter like 21/22 when we had a bunch of snow, then a bunch of rain, leaving this weird frozen slush layer under new snow so you didn't need any float at all! But for an average winter around here, the 88 sounds like the ticket.

As a note-
I used my Fischer 88 last winter more than I ever have- due to an unusually extended season of highly variable weather and snow conditions- including very high but variable snow-ice-rain precipitation- coupled with cold nights and mild days.
Fantastic ski-
slower than the 78- fo shu- but, more versatile if one is regularly dealing with deep and/or unstable snow.
Gareth
.......
The Nansen WL works best if one is using it in combination with grip wax.

I think I know the answer to this but selecting length is always problematic. Here's the Fischer chart:

I've been doing a lot of cycling and cardio this summer to get ready which has me at about 165 lbs in my shorts. I added up gear and my pack last year and it came out to around 20 lbs for a grand total of 185 lbs. That puts me solidly in the 189 cm range, even if I were to wear a heavier pack. It's going to be fun trying this out with Xplore and Abisku!

[lilcliffy]

I weigh 185lbs and have the 199cm- would not want it shorter.
The 78/88 are significantly-cambered Nordic touring skis- my opinion is that these skis are best at a longish length.
If one wants a shorter ski for turns/manouverablity- then one might as well be on the S-Bound 98.

[lowangle al]

Hey John, I noticed you didn't mention boots, but they will make a huge difference in the capability of a particular ski. In good conditions you could be good with an xcd boot. the same tour in lousy conditions might require a light plastic boot like T4 or Excusions.

For example I bought Madshus P68 to use with leather boots but in the conditions I encountered I was happier in my T4s and so was my wife. For me it's all about conditions, I'm fine skiing the steep and deep with leather boots in good conditions then, but give me my T4s on a crusty, rutted, flat snowmobile trail.

[JohnSKepler]

Hey John, I noticed you didn't mention boots, but they will make a huge difference in the capability of a particular ski. In good conditions you could be good with an xcd boot. the same tour in lousy conditions might require a light plastic boot like T4 or Excusions.

For example I bought Madshus P68 to use with leather boots but in the conditions I encountered I was happier in my T4s and so was my wife. For me it's all about conditions, I'm fine skiing the steep and deep with leather boots in good conditions then, but give me my T4s on a crusty, rutted, flat snowmobile trail.

Most of my heavier cross country skis have inserts or plates that let me mount Xplore, 3Pin, or Transit. My focus is to use these with Xplore and Lundhags Abisku. However, I will certainly want to try them with T4s and even F1-bellows. But maybe leave the TXPros at home.

I found last year that I really liked Voile Objective in Xplore/Free or Transit/F1 but not 3-pin. On the other hand, I liked the FT62 with Xplore/Free and 3Pin/T4 but not with the Transit/F1. However, the 3Pin is so hard to transition when the snow is deep I wound up using them very little in those conditions. Maybe not such a concern in that Fischer pattern base.

@lilcliffy just wanted to clarify. You're 185 lbs loaded and ski the 199? When I said I'm 185 that was fully loaded. That's well beyond the recommendation which leads me to wonder if I'll be able to compress the pattern sufficiently for good grip. I think I'm going to order a left over pair if I can find one and there are actually more 199s out there than 189 so, win.

[lilcliffy]

@JohnSKepler
I'm a solid stocky 185lbs unloaded!

[lilcliffy]

The Fischer 78/88 are significantly cambered- not double cambered-
They really should make both of these skis 10cm longer for heavier skiers-
also- a "199" Fischer is really 195cm in most other designs...
A "189" is certainly closer to 185 than it is 190...

Some examples-
Our 199 Fischers might be a hair longer than our 195 Karhu/Madshus/Asnes models-

And my 179 Fischer "98" is significantly shorter than my 180 Asnes 68...

[corlay]

the TR78 is a great ski. very versatile. not particularly "sexy" and is more of an "all-rounder" than a "niche specialist".

I'm 5'10"/190# and ski the 196 length, which was the longest at the time of purchase (Fall 2021 - mine have the ezskin attachment.) they work very well for me, but I agree with Gareth - could be longer!

[JohnSKepler]

@lilcliffy , @corlay; why is longer better in this ski? I've learned a lot over the last few years but one of the most elusive properties for me to understand, both alpine and tele, is ski length.