Skiing Bigger Descents in the XCD Style

[JackO]

Hi all -

I've long (well, the last decade) skied mostly in the heavy/aggressive downhill telemark manner - resort/resort touring/ backcountry. Which I love.

But I've lately become enchanted with skiing in the cross-country downhill style, or at least making descents on that gear (with plastic boots). My current setup in this vein: Madshus Panorama 68s mounted with Voile 3-Pin Cable bindings, using T4s for boots. I love the freedom of movement and especially the excitement descending on such a neutral setup.

I'm curious about chasing that feeling all the more on steeper descents, but in forgiving conditions. Like a corn harvest on the Southwest Chutes of Mount Adams, or the Silver Couloir outside of Silverthorne, Colorado. I understand it's not the best or most responsive equipment for these types of objectives, and I could be in for abject suffering if the conditions don't align. But I've had the pleasure of skiing steeps on my current setup, and I'm curious about taking it a little bit further.

I'm wondering what other skis might be out there that could be a bit stouter but still have similar specs (~70mm underfoot, camber-and-a-half or so, waxless preferred but not a must). There seems to be some serious love for the Asnes Rabb 68 - has anyone been on that ski of late? It looks fun.

I'd also love to hear more about folks making these sorts of descents on this kind of equipment - either lately or in the past. I presume there were more than a few doing so in the days before and right after the Terminator revolution, and that there may be a few left to this day.

I feel like descending in the XCD style lays bare the telemark experience, and requires a resolve in technique and finesse that the new guard in gear - however awesome it is - eschews in favor of efficiency. Every so often, I'd like to engage in that alternative.

Thanks
-J

[turnfarmer]

I skied off Shasta with Asolo extremes and 70ish underfoot skis a long time ago. In good snow no problem. In bad snow sufferage. But it was all we knew at the time. Couldn’t see doing it again but now I’m 25 years older.

I moved on to Garmont Guidas(T4sh), Riva 2s, and Voile MT surfs and pretty much skied everywhere on that for 10 years. Lots of resort and steep stuff included. Again wouldn’t go back, moved on to mostly locked heel.

Still ski the Guidas for meadow skipping. But hate the unstable rocker launch feeling and have been trying to replace with an F1 Home brew tts system. Think I have it dialed now and look forward to trying soon. No tippy toe rocker.
I finally have it set up to give me full free heel, 3pinsh feel, and full cable pressure.

For what you are thinking of I think you’d have a better time on a Voile Endeavor while still skiing your T4s. If there’s significant skinning involved maybe go to a switchback? But the switchback is so clunky that at that point I would just find an F1 and go TTS if free pivot is important.

[turnfarmer]

Also if waxless base is not required At/Alpine skis open up a lot more options.

[spopepro]

I’ve skied up to 35deg slopes in ingstads. I think they are a good ski but åsnes WL pattern is endlessly disappointing. But those are pretty close to the panoramas you’re on.

I’ve thought hard about picking up a pair of sr61 bc skis and voiding some warranties for exactly this kind of skiing, but haven’t pulled the trigger. Jed Porter doing the red line on PDGs has made me think more about what modern skimo gear can do (recognizing I’m no Jed Porter)

[blitzskier]

would like to see people do more steep hill skiing with the lurk, i'm just curious on how to use the thing myself..

[fisheater]

Jack, Take a look at the Asnes line:
https://www.en.asnes.com/products/alpine-touring/

My xcd ski is a Falketind 62. That would be a bit narrow and light for your use, but perfect for my lower peninsula Michigan use with a lot of kick and glide, and short vertical downhills. I also have the retired Tindan 86, along the lines of the Voile Endeavor.
I would think that the Nosi 76 might hit your sweet spot. These skis are made for ready attachment of the Asnes X-Skin, a short kicker skin ideal for long approaches. I find the Asnes poplar/carbon cores to be lively with good torsional strength, and reasonably light weight. Neptune in Colorado would be a good US source. Another reliable source is order from Varuste out of Finland with reasonable and fast shipping.

[JackO]

Thanks for the notes everyone:

I skied off Shasta with Asolo extremes and 70ish underfoot skis a long time ago. In good snow no problem. In bad snow sufferage.

For what you are thinking of I think you’d have a better time on a Voile Endeavor while still skiing your T4s. If there’s significant skinning involved maybe go to a switchback? But the switchback is so clunky that at that point I would just find an F1 and go TTS if free pivot is important.

This is a fun note because it's so close to the setup I ski - I have the Endeavor mounted with TTS Transit using F3s for boots as my go-to backcountry rig. It's super fun and great for whatever is thrown at you. The XCD setup I'm seeking for bigger objectives would certainly only come out when conditions align. The point on suffering in bad snow is definitely poignant, and something to always be prepared for. Not much leaning on the gear in XCD when things get weird, but I do think there's an allure in that, as masochistic - or short-sighted - as it might be.

I’ve skied up to 35deg slopes in ingstads. I think they are a good ski but åsnes WL pattern is endlessly disappointing. But those are pretty close to the panoramas you’re on.

I’ve thought hard about picking up a pair of sr61 bc skis and voiding some warranties for exactly this kind of skiing, but haven’t pulled the trigger. Jed Porter doing the red line on PDGs has made me think more about what modern skimo gear can do (recognizing I’m no Jed Porter)

I wasn't aware of Jed Porter or his Red Line traverse, I found an awesome article on WildSnow that he wrote on it- that site in its soulful iteration is sorely missed. I imagine mounting the sr61 with a three pin can't be less stout than the same binding on a Panorama 68...but I could be wrong

Jack, Take a look at the Asnes line:
https://www.en.asnes.com/products/alpine-touring/

My xcd ski is a Falketind 62. That would be a bit narrow and light for your use, but perfect for my lower peninsula Michigan use with a lot of kick and glide, and short vertical downhills. I also have the retired Tindan 86, along the lines of the Voile Endeavor.
I would think that the Nosi 76 might hit your sweet spot. These skis are made for ready attachment of the Asnes X-Skin, a short kicker skin ideal for long approaches. I find the Asnes poplar/carbon cores to be lively with good torsional strength, and reasonably light weight. Neptune in Colorado would be a good US source. Another reliable source is order from Varuste out of Finland with reasonable and fast shipping.

Thanks Fisheater - I ended up going with the Rabb and buying it from Telemark Pyrenees last night - same waist width as the Panorama 68, but half a cm wider at the shovel and a full cm wider at the tail should help add some umph and a tighter turn radius. The Nosi looks fun too.

I'm excited to get on these in a few months - and might need to dig into some Vic Bein and Paul Parker reading to hone some technique.

[phoenix]

"I ended up going with the Rabb and buying it from Telemark Pyrenees last night - same waist width as the Panorama 68, but half a cm wider at the shovel and a full cm wider at the tail should help add some umph and a tighter turn radius. The Nosi looks fun too.

I'm excited to get on these in a few months - and might need to dig into some Vic Bein and Paul Parker reading to hone some technique."

The Rabb's look good to me (as do the Ingstadt and Falkentind); the dimensions are fine if the ski has enough torsional rigidity, and some longitudinal as well (basically, more than the Madshus's). I'm jonesin' for something more in this category, but a waxable, since I've got some Objective BC's.
Those Paul Parker books were helpful for me when I needed some.

[JackO]

I do want to get those on some mountains - there's also a skimo uphill series here in town and I'm thinking I might give the Rabb and their X-Skins a try in a few of those races.

Not so much to compete (by any stretch) but with the idea to see if I can gauge some interest - both personally and community wide - in a local XCD race, or even an XCD category for these races.

It seems there aren't many dedicated XCD races going these days. I think that would be a blast. I live up in Steamboat and the terrain up here would be perfect this.

[spopepro]

That sounds rad and I'd love to hear how it goes.

Also if you're serious about adams south rib/southwest chutes I'd be down to do it with you on similar gear (might motivate me to actually get those SR61BCs... but to mount xplore or pins...?)