Excursion 88 vs. Ingstad vs. transnordic 82

[Christian96moeller]

Apriciate all the repsonses!

I was too a little bit confused by all the different types of Combat Nato. A waxless pattern seemed to make the most sense for me.

205cm? Must be the new Combat ski- based on the current Ingstad (as opposed to the previous-gen Ingstad)?
Does it have significant rocker in the shovel?

I havent received the ski yet, but on pictures it looks much smaller than the Ingstad. Though it is described as having a nordic rocker.

Are your experience based on the new or older combat nato @lilcliffy ?

The differences between the new and old combat nato, on picture, looks very subtle. I mostly noticed the x-skin insert.

I hope it is a very different ski from the Ingstad, besides sidecut and width at the waist.

As an aside- I am concerned that this may preclude the end of production of the old Combat NATO- which IMO/IME is a much more versatile design for Nordic touring...

Do you have any experience/guesses how the new Combat Nato handles hardpacked consilidated snow?

Best regards

Christian

[lilcliffy]

@Christian96moeller
Is this the ski that you have bought?
https://www.sportalbert.de/%c3%a5snes-b ... 7cA0301017

If so, it is the waxless version of this ski- the new Combat NATO "62"-
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato-62-bc/

The Combat NATO "62" has the same geometry (ie 84-62-74; lengths to 205; Nordic rocker and taper) as the current Ingstad:
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/ingstad-f ... kjoringer/
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/ingstad-w ... -fjellski/

The old Combat NATO (which is the one I have), is based on the old Ingstad (ie 84-62-74; lengths to 210; traditional shovel and tip):
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato/

I have the old "Jeger" Combat NATO- I also have the current Ingstad- they are very different skis.

The old "Jeger"Combat NATO has no shovel rocker and is a much more stable ski on hardpack/consolidated snow- though it has a much wider turn radius than the current Ingstad.
They are both very stable in very deep snow- though the old Combat NATO is a more effective/efficient trail-breaking ski than the currrent Ingstad/Combat NATO "62".
The old Combat NATO is a more efficient Nordic touring ski than the current Ingstad/Combat NATO "62"- in all snow conditions- and still climbs and turns well.
The current Ingstad/Combat NATO "62" has a much shorter turn radius, and also planes more effectively due to the significant shovel rocker→ this ski is more narrowly tuned to touring in deep-soft snow.

[Christian96moeller]

Hello again! It has been a little while. Hope all of you had a good start for the season.

A lot of new information to take in

Is this the ski that you have bought?
https://www.sportalbert.de/%c3%a5snes-b ... 7cA0301017

Correct @l@lilcliffy

Do you know if there are any differences between the current Nato 62 and the current? I assume your comparsion is based on the Ingstad only.

If not, it might not be the ski was looking for after all, as good deep snow is quite rare, where I ski. Perhaps I should swap it out for the older version.

From my eyeballing comparison the shovel rocker seems shorter, than the Ingstad (based on picture asnes website).

Christian

[telerat]

@lilcliffy and @JohnSKepler - here is the Åsnes page for the waxless NATO ski in Norwegian:
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato-62-waxless/
It is not listed on the page showing all the models, but came up on my Google search today. No pictures show the sole, but the page clearly states waxless sole in two instances.

Åsnes Combat NATO BC (English: Combat NATO 62) comes in the same lengths as Ingstad and both states nordic rocker. The Nato ski now also comes in waxless and is marked as a novelty.

Åsnes Combat Jeger NATO 62 BC (English: COMBAT NATO BC) have different lengths from the above, does not state nordic rocker and has a milled sole for the skin insert with a fastener at the end. This likely has the older flex?

I think the confusion of Åsnes and Voile using BC differently has already been cleared up?

[lilcliffy]

@Christian96moeller
It is entirely possible that Asnes has designed a different rocker-camber-flex profile for this new Combat NATO "62"- I have no idea.
Do they have "Nordic" rocker? If so, they should appear to have no rocker at all until you compress the camber.
The Ingstad BC that we have has a TON of Nordic rocker in the shovel (similar to the last-generation Fischer E-109)- too much in my opinion.
If your new ski has only minimal/moderate rocker in the shovel- that is a good thing- it will be a more versatile Nordic touring ski.
Gareth

[Christian96moeller]

Hi again @@lilcliffy

They do have the nordic rocker. I like the idea of the nordic rocker as long as it is balanced.

i tried to take a picture of it.

How does this rocker compare to your Ingstad skis? I'm not sure its possible to see. alternatively I could meassure the rocker. Could be really cool to hear your opinion

i agree less rocker is a good thing. I just compared the combat natos to my rabbs, and the rocker seemed a little shorter.


best regards

Christian

[lilcliffy]

Hi Christian,
Without taking some comparitive measurements- your skis at least appear to have a bit less rocker than my Ingstad BC- they appear to be in between my Gamme 54 and Ingstad BC...

Don't get me wrong- I love my Ingstad BC. When the snow conditions suit it, it is my favorite XC ski.

The current Falketind 62 Xplore (FTX) has less rocker than previous designs (and less than my Ingstad BC)- this was an improvement in IMO- it has made the FTX a more stable and versatile touring ski.

Another point of reference- my Ingstad BC definitely has more shovel rocker than my Rabb 68 (current model).

Gareth

[Christian96moeller]

Hi Christian,
Without taking some comparitive measurements- your skis at least appear to have a bit less rocker than my Ingstad BC- they appear to be in between my Gamme 54 and Ingstad BC...

Don't get me wrong- I love my Ingstad BC. When the snow conditions suit it, it is my favorite XC ski.

The current Falketind 62 Xplore (FTX) has less rocker the previous designs (and less than my Ingstad BC)- this was an improvement in IMO- it has made the FTX a more stable and verastile touring ski.

Another point of reference- my Ingstad BC definitely has more shovel rocker than my Rabb 68 (current model).

Gareth

Thanks for the quick response!

Do you know if Asnes regular X-skins are compatible with the old version of the combat nato?

I'm not sure if I have found the perfect ski, but at this point I am tempted to give it a shot, and hope they will do all right.

Christian

[lilcliffy]

Thanks for the quick response!

You are welcome my friend!

Do you know if Asnes regular X-skins are compatible with the old version of the combat nato?

Yes, the old metal-head "Skin-Lock" kicker skin metrics are identical to the current plastic-head "X-Skin"- they fit the older Combat NATO design.