Can you actually climb with kick wax?

[lilcliffy]

If using the typical Swix waxes, color-coded…
do you consider them *All* “grip waxes”? or do you consider the colder waxes “grip” and warmer waxes “kick”? If so, what color is the break-point? (example: Polar, Green, Blue, Blue Extra = grip, Violet Special, Red Special, Red-Silver = kick?) and if these are all “grip” in your mind, which other Swix waxes would be considered “kick”?

Hey man-
in many ways this is all semantics- whether use of terms of reference matters or not-
intention certainly does!!!

I am not trying to suggest that "grip" wax is different than "kick" wax (as some have suggested that I am suggesting)-

My point is that the term "kick" wax in a modern context is associated with groomed Classic track skiing- not backcountry Nordic touring...

Regardless- pour moi, "kick" wax is a selected grip wax that is only intended for pure grip- and as such must be used conservatively, as if it maximizes grip- it does not glide very effectively.

As you already know- in very cold weather, even Swix Polar grip wax is an effective "kick" wax, and at those temperatures, I end up stripping most of the base of wax and use Polar very conservatively.

So- all grip waxes can be used as "kick" wax in the appropriate snow conditions.

My primary point in being deliberate in differentiating between "grip" and "kick" wax is that- except in very cold weather- where very hard/cold grip wax (eg Swix Polar) is an effective "kick" wax- if one focuses on using grip wax (instead of glide wax), one can get away with very little use of kick wax; and get the full benefit of a grip-waxed base that both grips and glides.

Circling back to your question-
In my personal experience- anything grip wax that is softer/warmer than Swix Blue, I have used purely as "kick" wax (ie purely for grip).

[corlay]

thanks. that clarifies....

[JimC]

I ski backcountry in the foothills of the Cariboo Mtns. We have climbs into the Alpine areas of varying steepness, often up creek drainages. I have always used a grip wax for the center 1/3 of the ski either blue or extra blue when telemarking. The climb up is almost always on skins, breaking trail with wax in powder is not fun. (We used to use only wax but then someone showed up with skins one day)
The big advantage to a blue grip wax is some grip on the flats and gentle uphills on top and on the way down without skinning up. It is a bit slower than a glide waxed ski but the grip makes up for that.

[red_pine]

- Follow up

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I was too eager to test the grip tape, so I borrowed an old pair of skis from a neighbor.

Same length as the TAOs, nothing scientific, the tape covers roughly the same surface (first picture).

The weather was a sunny -3°C.

Second picture, 17-degree slope, no problems going up, both skis behaved similarly - easy.

Third picture, 23-degree slope, I was able to go up maybe 20-25 feet before the skis lost complete traction.
Again, both were similar, but this required a lot of effort.

I'll test again when it's colder, but I can say grip tape (grip wax) certainly can climb!

That's really great to see that you have had success with grip tape in loose snow. What did you think of the climbing and gliding performance compared to the skin skis, or compared to normal grip wax?

[red_pine]

Trying to get some clear answers on this. Is it at all possible to climb steeply on xc skis and wax? I am familiar with lilcliffy's and Pinnah's method of waxing for touring (Polar on whole ski and kick wax of the day in pocket or extended if needed) and yet I still start sliding backwards on essentially any incline. In fairness I am a novice to xc skis so maybe my technique is at fault, but if feels nearly impossible to climb with only wax. Realistically how steep should I expect to be able to climb with wax, and how should I go about getting the best climbing ability?

This is a really complicated question. It could be a matter of technique. Or it could be due to the snow conditions: warmer snow is tougher to wax for, and so is transformed snow. You might have enough grip on the flats but not enough on steep terrain. Or it could be due to the skis. Skis that are too long for your weight will be difficult to climb with, and skis with significant amounts of rocker will also be tougher to climb.

Without knowing what type of skis you're using, and what conditions you're dealing with, it's almost impossible to answer this question.

[wabene]

The addition this year of a simple mercury thermometer hanging on my backpack and a digital snow thermometer has established firm data points making it easier to unlock the mysteries of ski wax. Honestly the much cheaper mercury thermometer is all that's needed. The snow thermometer adds more info, but once you know more about how snow temps relate to air temps based on things like over night temps and cloud cover, it's maybe not necessary to check it as often. I'll just stick it in the snow at the beginning of a water break. Little details emerge such as how much colder it can be deep in the woods especially in valleys and lowlands. For me knowing the temp and which direction it's going has led to by far the best waxing results I've had. Some of the mystery has been removed.

[fatskinning]

@Redpine

On that day (fresh snow, -3°C, sunny), both skis provided similar grip while climbing. However, the grip tape ski exhibited more glide than the skin ski. I haven't tested with grip wax, but I suspect the grip tape would still offer superior glide.

Cross-country skis typically have significant camber, which makes generating grip underfoot challenging, even with excellent technique. Skis with minimal or no camber offer easier grip.

Your weight in relation to the ski's length and camber is likely the primary factor affecting your grip.