Light gear does a good telemarker make?

[phoenix]

Just offering some ski history as I recall it, nothing personal. Sondre found upon landing, the stance provided more fore/aft balance; that was the origin of the turn. In the town of Telemark. ‘Course one would need to turn to scrub the speed of landing from the jump. Speculation now on my part, but I have a hunch he used a stem of some kind initiating out of the ‘one long ski’ mode on landing.
Over time, the technique became more widely adopted and migrated over to the Alps also, where the technique rivalry developed. Alpine technique eventually dominated in those environments, the Scandinavian countries kept the deeper nordic heritage.

[Lhartley]

Well in any case if the telemark ski was developed on ski jumping skis then it was likely developed on "heavy" gear so point taken. What I had read was that it was first developed during a 3 day race which first showcased both the telemark and the Christie turn, I'll read more, it's all very interesting

[fisheater]

Been thinking, vodka involved. Telemark originated on "light" gear, serving the purpose of going downhill on nordic gear. Maybe a better question is, can I really tele if I can't tele light gear. And, if not, then of course I would be a better telemarker I can telemark whatever im on. What even is the point of "heavy" tele other than aesthetic, pride, etc. Advantages? Faster transitions, less acl injuries? Debatable
Deep thoughts with Jack Handy

If you’re going to really think deep, maybe you should go into the smoke teepee! That was just a joke, I hope no offense is taken.
I think the line of division is between single camber and double camber. If my understanding of ski history is correct, double camber skis are a specialty invention of the 20th century designed to cover ground and eventually evolving into race skis used on groomed tracks. When I look at the history of Telemark that I was around for, while the skis were narrow, they were single cambered. Narrow was to travel efficiently and single cambered to turn. They also were constructed of the same materials as the downhill skis of the day. The skis I’m referring to are the old Tua’s, I believe the Kazama’s were also single camber, but that may not be the case. I will state unequivocally, that making Telemark turns on double camber skis is just more difficult. The longer and better one gets at making Telemark turns, the more conditions one can make Telemark turns in, even with double camber skis.
I have spent many years skiing XCD gear at the ski hill.
I didn’t have the money for resort gear, or many lift tickets. I took my son to a couple ski weekends a year. I skied on USGI skis, S-112’s, and the original Falketind’s. This was over a ten year period. I also acquired some Gamme in that period. I never considered taking them to the resort. I did make some Telemark turns on them and still do, but skiing at Michigan ski hills, where it’s always frozen underneath, and typically heavier if it’s loose, the touch required to handle a double cambered ski is tricky. I skied a USGI and leather on black runs, so I can say I did it. Maybe I felt like I should be able to ski anything on that gear, or I wasn’t any good. While it was easier to ski blacks on the S-112, doing so only made me despise that torsional noodle of a ski. Do I think skiing gear, that was not made for the terrain I was skiing made me a better skier? No, I don’t think so. I already knew how I wanted to ski, it just made it difficult. Fortunately, most of those years were on the greens and easy blue runs. I never was bored skiing with my son when he was learning. I would go right back to light gear at the ski hill, and enjoy myself very much if I ever have grandchildren. However, it will not be on a double camber ski. My multiple linked Telemark turns on double camber skis are limited to the XC trails. I get a few in on my hiking trails I really enjoy XC skiing on, but on those twisty and sometimes steep trails, you turn how you need to turn.
In closing, I think the choice of skis is conditions and terrain dependent. If you are skiing terrain that has good downhill turns, my choice would be a single camber ski. I want a ski that bends into the turn. A lot of my local skiing is actually on double cambered skis. Barely enough coverage to cover the rocks, doesn’t make my good turning locations a good choice. I think all kinds of Nordic skiing are great! I think there are benefits of all types of Nordic skiing. I understand the challenge of skiing terrain in lighter than optimal gear, but does it make you a better skier? I will say it illuminates you weakness in form. However it is important to be realistic about conditions and terrain. Skiing ideal conditions (in Japan) on NNN-BC on low angle terrain is one thing. It really doesn’t make you a great skier. To each his own, I would much rather be able to rip turns on a mountain, BC or off piste. I’ll be on plastic boots and an appropriate all mountain ski and binding.

[Lhartley]

No offense taken at all, today I'll be doing my deep thinkin' underneath a really ugly jetta. I agree with all those points, what I think trips me up is MY definition of a "better skier". For me it's more about the adventure than the skill set. I'll never be a Telehiro or Teletay or Lofi and that's OK. What got me into telemark and this forum is expanded set of conditions and terrains that I'll see on nordic backcountry setups. It was all so easy when all I had was two AT setups; one for pow, one for low tide. Now, I have mr48, e99, m68, m78, an objective class, a hypervector class, and a big powder ski. I have a ski for everything and generally my purpose will be xcD. I'm going out with the purpose of making telemark turns, but where speed of travel being also a secondary consideration. Im also working on nordic skills, which are also fun and new and interesting to me. I want to kick and glide. I could take my objective class ski everywhere, that would make things easier sure. It's actually becoming more regular to see folks on AT gear and big telemark gear at the nordic centers around here. Idk, different strokes for different folks. I'll accept that skiing light gear DOES NOT MAKE me a better telemarker. I've been convinced. I'll focus on just being competent on the gear I want to ski.

[fisheater]

I ski the lightest gear that makes sense. If I’m on snow it’s good. I drop a knee every chance I get, sometimes I’m not even really making turns, just a short narrow downhill, just drop a knee, up, drop the other knee. Naturally, as a Telemarker, I make all the turns I can, so I guess I’ll never make a good ski racer. I’m not big on drills, I just try to ski well.
I also really enjoy myself, being over sixty and not the athlete I once was, it’s easy to be the skier I am.
I’m still working at being better, and still am the same kid that ran to slide over every frozen puddle on the way to school. Those old fashion leather soled shoes slid over frozen water puddles really well!
Have fun, it sounds like you do.

[Lhartley]

I like the way you look at skiing, and hope to ski that well as I head towards your age (my bones feel like I'm there already)

[greatgt]

Bardini....It's a NORDIC turn. Dig it! Skinnies slicing powder is the most awesome FEELING. Double camber doubles the feeling as in having shock absorbers. Anyway you cut it, Telemark is great. TM

[tkarhu]

"Telemark originated on "light" gear, serving the purpose of going downhill on nordic gear."
I invite correction if I'm mistaken, but as I recall the turn was a technique innovated used by Sondre Norheim as a more stable means of landing a nordic jump. It went on to be used in alpine regions as well, used by some while others were using alpine technique. There was a rivalry between some proponents of each technique, with two dudes actually dueling over their principles of descent.
Now we just do it on the interweb.

Some invited correction is coming About the origins of the telemark turn and the telemark landing.

Sondre Norheim introduced the Telemark turn to Norwegian wider public in 1868, when he participated the very first national skiing competition in Oslo (then called Christiania). Btw. his journey there included some XC, too, because he and two other competitors skied to Oslo from their home village Morgedal in Telemark. The approach was 200 km and took three days. But more important, he introduced both telemark and parallel turns to a wider public then.

The telemark landing, of ski jumping, was introduced by Torju Tjorussen in 1883. So the telemark landing came later than the turn. Both Norheim and Torjussen were also from the county of Telemark, which had had a rich downhill skiing culture since the 1850’s.