Can't control speed! Snowplow doesn't plough...

[fisheater]

I am a semi experienced classic skier with extremely lacking downhill skills. Haven't met a hill I can't get up, which may be a big part of the problem...



Going to take myself out of the brake or break situations for a bit and try to better master this skill on less angled and less consequential terrain.

Maybe look into shopping the end of the season specials on some slightly wider and less cambered skis as well.

Hey Sam, I think you are exactly on the right track. Good technique is developed on easier terrain. End of the season specials are a good thing as well. Good luck

[Mtlsam]

*UPDATE*

Thanks for all the help folks. I had a pretty good end of the season with many more outings and lots of practice in easier terrain.
I also happened to score a sweet deal on a pair on Transnordic 82's in 190cm length. The trails around here have been suffering from rain and ice, so today I took them on an inaugural outing to the local bunny hill. Did 31 laps (riding a sweet, but slow conveyor belt up) and I felt like I was gaining some confidence and control in my turning. Will have to keep at it. I think I made more turns this afternoon than in my nearly 330km of xc skiing this season.
Fun times!

[Inspiredcapers]

Been trying to find the perfect ski for variable situations for years no luck yet.

Ever contemplate a lurk for situations like that? Its a different kind of skiing but its worked for me using skinnier skis on sketchy terrain

[Mtlsam]

Been trying to find the perfect ski for variable situations for years no luck yet.

Ever contemplate a lurk for situations like that? Its a different kind of skiing but its worked for me using skinnier skis on sketchy terrain

I haven't thought of that too much, but I do sometimes see older skiers in my area doing pole drags holding both on one side or even the occasional witches' broom technique. Seems to work reasonably well, but hard on the poles I would think.

[JohnSKepler]

I remember decades ago when the sport of rollerblading burst on the scene. I didn't live in a place that was conducive to the sport or I'd have loved giving it a go. Closest I got was some rental blades and some bumpy outings. At any rate, one of the things I read at the time went something like, "...the lack of any way to slow down/brake/control speed is like a cloud hanging over the sport'..." I felt like this when I started XC a few years ago. I took a multi-pronged approach to this.

First, I went off track. I discovered I liked it a lot better and it is, for me, a lot safer. It is how I prefer to ski.

But, if there's no off-track? I check conditions. I really only have speed problems if the groomed track has turned to ice. I do love a well-groomed road and nicely set classic track. If you can stay in the classic track coming down you can control speed quite effectively by squeezing the track with your skis. You can about stop anywhere doing that, even when icy. You can push out, too but it isn't as effective and can tend to pop out of the track. If someone is coming up, call out and let them know you are descending uncontrolled. The best way to do this is to cry "Get out of the way!" and flail your arms. Sadly, doesn't work for dogs. Oh, well.

If conditions are poor, see how many others have grooved the trail. If it is a skate skiing mecca and you are on metal edges you've going to catch every one of those V's coming down. When it's like that I either leave and find somewhere else, or, if there's nowhere else and I really want to ski, I really plow coming down. If your plow is not working, you're not doing it right. I do get everything you are saying but if you have some camber, and your edges aren't butter-knives, you can control speed with a plow. You just have to really get into the plow and angle your edges. It takes squatting into a wide stance, driving your knees inward, and pushing your toes into the ski. The edges will bite. It isn't fun, it isn't pretty, but it is a great workout.

It helps a lot if you have several pairs of skis you can bring along. I usually carry a set of skinny, cambered skis, a Falketind62, and a Voile Objective. That pretty much can carry you, in reasonable safety, over pretty much any snow surface except deep powder or solid ice. They are all fitted with Xplore and I've been very happy with the Lundhags Abisku boot as a good tradeoff between lightness and stiffness. It's not the most of either but it's really working for me. If you're on NNNBC, pull those off and come back with Xplore. 10X improvement.

[aclyon]

So if you show us a photo or video of your wedge technique, I think we can give you more valuable feedback. I teach skiing at one of the local resorts, mostly to first timers, so nearly 100% of our focus is on the wedge ("snowplow") technique. The principles of a good wedge are the same in XC as in alpine, except that we don't have the strong plastic boot cuff to lean into in XC, making the technique a bit more difficult.

A few core principles:
-The whole thing is based on rotation of the hip flexor. Your big toe could be thought of as a pivot point. If you are sweeping out the heels or buckling your knees, you're not rotating properly.
-Pressuring the balls of the feet and toes puts pressure on the tips of the skis, which is how we maintain control. If you get back seat at all, you won't be able to effectively mitigate speed (in fact you'll probably speed up).
-We ski on the *bases* of our skis, not the edges. The edges get dug in when you are coming to a full stop or need to quickly mitigate speed. But trying to cut speed with a wedge is hard work on the hip flexors. You need to already be at a fairly conservative speed to use the wedge effectively for speed control.
-*You should only be bending at the ankles.* If your waist is bent at all, you need to eliminate that habit. Practice an athletic stance-- body straight, bend at the ankles, compress knees slightly to handle higher speeds and pressure the toes more. Pretend (with the handles of your poles) that you are holding a lunch tray with a drink on it, which you do not want to spill.
-You want to go out into a downhill feature *already in the wedge position*. Wedging from a parallel position already going downhill is much more difficult, and you will have to make a very large wedge to cut speed effectively, putting lots of stress on your hip flexors. Try going out in a fairly narrow wedge, and widening it to control speed, then narrowing it to speed up, throwing in turns to taste.
-Remember you can also use J-turns to control speed and stop. This means to turn all the way until you stop, often taking you past 90 degrees slightly facing up the fall line.

In my opinion, it's always the skier not the skis so practice practice practice. And seriously with just a picture or a short vid any knowledgeable skier can give you much more useful feedback! Hope these pointers help though.

[Mtlsam]

So if you show us a photo or video of your wedge technique, I think we can give you more valuable feedback. I teach skiing at one of the local resorts, mostly to first timers, so nearly 100% of our focus is on the wedge ("snowplow") technique. The principles of a good wedge are the same in XC as in alpine, except that we don't have the strong plastic boot cuff to lean into in XC, making the technique a bit more difficult.

A few core principles:
-The whole thing is based on rotation of the hip flexor. Your big toe could be thought of as a pivot point. If you are sweeping out the heels or buckling your knees, you're not rotating properly.
-Pressuring the balls of the feet and toes puts pressure on the tips of the skis, which is how we maintain control. If you get back seat at all, you won't be able to effectively mitigate speed (in fact you'll probably speed up).
-We ski on the *bases* of our skis, not the edges. The edges get dug in when you are coming to a full stop or need to quickly mitigate speed. But trying to cut speed with a wedge is hard work on the hip flexors. You need to already be at a fairly conservative speed to use the wedge effectively for speed control.
-*You should only be bending at the ankles.* If your waist is bent at all, you need to eliminate that habit. Practice an athletic stance-- body straight, bend at the ankles, compress knees slightly to handle higher speeds and pressure the toes more. Pretend (with the handles of your poles) that you are holding a lunch tray with a drink on it, which you do not want to spill.
-You want to go out into a downhill feature *already in the wedge position*. Wedging from a parallel position already going downhill is much more difficult, and you will have to make a very large wedge to cut speed effectively, putting lots of stress on your hip flexors. Try going out in a fairly narrow wedge, and widening it to control speed, then narrowing it to speed up, throwing in turns to taste.
-Remember you can also use J-turns to control speed and stop. This means to turn all the way until you stop, often taking you past 90 degrees slightly facing up the fall line.

In my opinion, it's always the skier not the skis so practice practice practice. And seriously with just a picture or a short vid any knowledgeable skier can give you much more useful feedback! Hope these pointers help though.

Thanks for the descriptive body position tips. At this point it's looking like applying them will go to next winter, but gives me something to think about over the warmer months.
Cheers!

[tkarhu]

A few core principles:
-The whole thing is based on rotation of the hip flexor. Your big toe could be thought of as a pivot point. If you are sweeping out the heels or buckling your knees, you're not rotating properly.
-Pressuring the balls of the feet and toes puts pressure on the tips of the skis, which is how we maintain control. If you get back seat at all, you won't be able to effectively mitigate speed (in fact you'll probably speed up).
-We ski on the *bases* of our skis, not the edges. The edges get dug in when you are coming to a full stop or need to quickly mitigate speed. But trying to cut speed with a wedge is hard work on the hip flexors. You need to already be at a fairly conservative speed to use the wedge effectively for speed control.
-*You should only be bending at the ankles.* If your waist is bent at all, you need to eliminate that habit. Practice an athletic stance-- body straight, bend at the ankles, compress knees slightly to handle higher speeds and pressure the toes more. Pretend (with the handles of your poles) that you are holding a lunch tray with a drink on it, which you do not want to spill.
-You want to go out into a downhill feature *already in the wedge position*. Wedging from a parallel position already going downhill is much more difficult, and you will have to make a very large wedge to cut speed effectively, putting lots of stress on your hip flexors. Try going out in a fairly narrow wedge, and widening it to control speed, then narrowing it to speed up, throwing in turns to taste.
-Remember you can also use J-turns to control speed and stop. This means to turn all the way until you stop, often taking you past 90 degrees slightly facing up the fall line.

In my opinion, it's always the skier not the skis so practice practice practice. And seriously with just a picture or a short vid any knowledgeable skier can give you much more useful feedback! Hope these pointers help though.

Thanks for the descriptive body position tips. At this point it's looking like applying them will go to next winter, but gives me something to think about over the warmer months.
Cheers!

Lots of good tips from @aclyon. In fact, I wanted to bring out some similar points based on wedging down a narrow track yesterday, and trying to manage it.

I had a hard time wedging down a snowmobile-driven ski track. The groomed base was narrow, only slightly wider than a normal snowmobile track. The track was driven on top of 50+ cm of soft snow, that had piled up between two fells. So similarly to a forest track with hiker, mtb or snowshoe traces, edges of the beaten track were higher than the middle part, and the track was actually too narrow for snowploughing.

What I would normally do is a half (one-leg) snowplough, when in a ski track. Yet problem was that the tail of the wedging ski went to the soft snow which gave unpredictable results. What helped was pressuring the tips of your skis, which means shins-to-boots, like aclyon instructed. That also took weight away from the tails, which made the tails float over obstacles and uneven snow.

What also helped was skiing outside the groomed track. Soft snow slowed my down, and nature snow was also more even than the track this time. Like JohnSKepler suggested.

What i am not sure of is instructing against leaning your upper body forward, when XC wedging. In a forward leaning position, could you activate also your buttock muscles more effectively? Maybe there is also a difference whether you wedge in an alpine or XC downhill context. In the latter, you are often go downhill in a forward-leaning, aerodynamic shape.

[aclyon]

What i am not sure of is instructing against leaning your upper body forward, when XC wedging. In a forward leaning position, could you activate also your buttock muscles more effectively? Maybe there is also a difference whether you wedge in an alpine or XC downhill context. In the latter, you are often go downhill in a forward-leaning, aerodynamic shape.

instead of bending at the waist, compress the knees. this will flex the glutes. by bending the ankles, pressuring toes, and compressing the knees, you will essentially be in a forward leaning position. by bending at the waist, you are trying to initiate wedging and turning with the upper body, when in fact it should be done entirely with leg rotation and pressure.

in general glutes will get activated much more in XCD than alpine, because you need to flex as much of the leg as possible to stay balanced on your toes/bof without the aid of a plastic boot cuff.