Sintered vs Extruded Ski Base

[lowangle al]

The tips and tails of my Voiles wax up like any of my sintered based skis. The scales are something different but for a scaled ski they glide real well and are not as noisy as the other popular brands.

fgd, I still have a pair of those Epoke 900s.

[Transplantskier]

I actually happened to ask Crister from Åsnes about the Åsnes extruded base (in relation to my waxing strategy) in early 2020 and he said the following in a few messages.

Confirming that the MT51 WL does not have sintered bases:
"No, it is really hard and expencive to produce waxless bases from sintred soles with a high wax absorbtion. Our Waxless soles will be waxable in on the glidesone, but not as good as the specifically selected sintred soles we use on all or regular BC skis."

Confirming that the Nansen WL does not have sintered bases:
"...the waxless bases are not sintred. Remember that there is huge differences in even sintered soles, so the fact that the waxless base is not sintred does not mean it is a bad basematerial. "

He went on to strongly emphasise the benefits of a good glide waxing regimen even with the extruded bases (maybe even more so actually). And I honestly feel that a really well cared for extruded base feels almost as good as a sintered one, and certainly as good as a neglected sintered base.

[phoenix]

"I really like my Epoke 900's, but the bases could be faster, they're Slow-Pokies".

The phrase sounds vaguely familiar, but I never found my taxable 900's or 1000's slow, nor did I ever have any trouble with waxing or adhesion. I don't recall anyone else, of the very many users of those skis who I knew, having such issues either.

Now, as for the non-wax Epoke's, those mica-chipped no-wax in particular... those were flat out slow.

Which Epoke's, if I may partially divert the thread, are we referring to here?

[Stephen]

I called Voile to clarify the base material(s) on the BC version of their skis.
The rep I talked to said that the tip and tail material is sintered, just as on their non-BC skis.
And that the base material in the traction section is extruded.
I asked if lack of info on their website was a marketing decision, and he seemed too agree that the idea was to not complicate the marketing presentation with that level of detailed information.

So, this discussion has been interesting.
I guess the take away for me is that I’m probably not losing base wax at an excessive rate on the Objective BC.
Unlike @Woodserson, I have been doing a scrape and brush for the glide wax on the non traction base of my Objectives, but maybe I should just call it good with a hot iron wax. The wax would sure last longer that way, but, theoretically, not be as fast.

And, that Fisher seems to offer a more optimized base on their WL skis than Asnes does, since Fisher uses sintered material for the non-traction sections of the ski base.

[joeatomictoad]

Sintered bases are made from ptex/poly pellets crunched under tremendous pressure...

Extruded bases are easier to repair with a ptex candle than the harder sintered bases...

Good info. I was thinking about base repair for sintered vs. extruded. Presume ptex ok for both.

My first pair of "new" alpine skis had extruded bases. Too young to know, or care, at the time. But I do remember what happens when waxing is neglected... makes a kind of static cling with the snow that is extremely counterproductive to gliding. Never had such a sensation on sintered bases.

[NewNordicNincompoop]

What do you folks think of this (emphasis mine)?

Ski bases are inherently very good for gliding on snow. Even the extruded bases found on inexpensive skis glide remarkably well on snow without treatment, and the Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE) on higher performance skis is unsurpassed for toughness, impact resistance, and slipperiness. No wonder that a common use for UHMWPE is in joint replacement! For non-racing use, UHMWPE has be shown to glide remarkably well without any glide wax at all…although it has a maximum potential at about 18 F in low humidity.

The one thing UHMWPE doesn’t have is pores. Old ski wax advice about ironing in wax to “soak into” or to be “absorbed” by the base was never true. Wax does not absorb into the base of a ski. Going back and forth with many coats of wax was (often) a waste of wax and electricity. Recent experiments by tribologists (the science of slippery surfaces) demonstrated that that the major interaction of glide wax with snow surfaces comes only from an incredibly thin layer (sometimes only molecules thick) of wax on top of the ski base, such as what liquid glide waxes provide.

Empirically, liquid glide waxes have been proving to have excellent performance for both speed and durability, for most skiers as good as ironed-in waxes.

Source: https://teacupnordic.org/blogs/news/is- ... -a-summery

[wsjones]

I sort of hate to even chime in on technical discussions on this forum (ok, maybe intimidated's a better description), but I THINK my circa 2010 Fischer "S-bound outbound crown" skis were supposed to have a fully sintered base.

I don't have the original paperwork mfg's info on them, but bases are uniformly black from top to tail, with the traction pattern apparently cut into the base. The skis are 70-60-65 and 189 cm, which was the longest available when I bought them. Surely someone here has or had the same skis and might offer additional info with respect to OP's intent for the thread.

For better or worse I've only ever just cleaned them up and liquid glide waxed them stem to stern since I got them.

Scott

[wabene]

My only fishscale skis are a cheaper Fisher Country Crown BC ski with no metal edges and an extruded base. It is my only extruded base ski. They are long, 215cm, so almost fast. I tried hot glide waxing them, but wasn't getting the best results. Talked to the ski tech at my local shop and he talked me into this expensive product.

The G41 and the cleaner. He said it is really hard and lasts long. I do agree. I get more milage than I was with the hot wax and it is easy. The extruded base just didn't seem to hold hot wax well and the cheaper cupped ski base was hard to scrape.
First I use the cleaner/primer. Then spray the wax on and spread evenly with some fibrex. Let it dry for 20 minutes. Then I brush it with a nylon brush. If they look a little chalky before I head out again, I give them a quick brush with the nylon brush.
This is the only ski I use it on and it's lasted last season and this with still about half left. So if I get 4 or so years out of it, it is worth it to me.