Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

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Stephen
Posts: 1465
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 am
Location: PNW USA
Ski style: Aspirational
Favorite Skis: Armada Tracer 118 (195), Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178)
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance, Scarpa TX Pro
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6’3” / 191cm — 172# / 78kg, size 47 / 30 mondo

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by Stephen » Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:39 pm

twopass wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:48 am
Can I use epoxy on foam core skis? I mean, would you?
I could make a case for epoxy with foam.
Is there a concern that the epoxy would dissolve the foam?
I'm pretty sure not. There is tons of epoxy / foam composite construction done.
My thinking is that the epoxy would create a more dense area around the screw, inside the ski core, providing better pullout strength.

That's my guess...

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twopass
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Favorite Skis: Tatra Gopher High 12's
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Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by twopass » Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:12 pm

Stephen wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:39 pm
twopass wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:48 am
Can I use epoxy on foam core skis? I mean, would you?
I could make a case for epoxy with foam.
Is there a concern that the epoxy would dissolve the foam?
I'm pretty sure not. There is tons of epoxy / foam composite construction done.
My thinking is that the epoxy would create a more dense area around the screw, inside the ski core, providing better pullout strength.

That's my guess...
Yeah like sailboats 'n stuff. I think I heard epoxy + foam was a no no advice from the old Tele-Tips site or MEC or some such thing.
"I really have had enough of illogical detraction by association as a way of avoiding logical argument by an absurd extension of ad hominem argument to third parties."



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JohnSKepler
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:31 pm
Location: Utahoming
Ski style: XCBCD
Favorite Skis: Voile Objective BC, Rossignol BC 80
Favorite boots: Scarpa F1 Bellows, Alpina Alaska XP
Occupation: Rocket Scientist

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by JohnSKepler » Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:24 pm

Stephen wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:37 pm
JohnSKepler wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:51 pm
Rottefella has a nice template you can print out and I'm an experienced screwer. :D
EDIT:
I would love to know where that template link is!

It's a minor but critical detail, but make sure to verify that the template you print actually prints at a scale of 1:1.
Sometimes there is a scaling problem.
I think the printout requires legal paper.

Here is a great video on mounting the Xplore binding by @Tom M.

The template is here here under the Mounting Instructions menu--> https://rottefella.com/en_GB/backcountry and I have also attached it. I ended up printing it out on Ledger paper to get it all centered up.

I did a search on zeroing ruler and found a lot of examples for download. I've attached it as well.
Paper_jig_Rottefella_XploreOff-Track.pdf
(450.01 KiB) Downloaded 319 times
ten_inch_centering_ruler.pdf
(568.46 KiB) Downloaded 287 times
Veni, Vidi, Viski



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JohnSKepler
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:31 pm
Location: Utahoming
Ski style: XCBCD
Favorite Skis: Voile Objective BC, Rossignol BC 80
Favorite boots: Scarpa F1 Bellows, Alpina Alaska XP
Occupation: Rocket Scientist

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by JohnSKepler » Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:49 pm

Mounted my bindings yesterday evening. Used Titebond II as recommended above and, I tend to keep it around for wood working. The process went pretty smooth. None of it was difficult but I don't do a lot of drilling into $250 apiece sticks of wood so I took it slow. It was just a matter of mitigating all the usual issues of marking and drilling. I did dry run the whole process with a piece of plywood first and wound up making an adjustment.
DryRun.jpg
My Alfa Free boots are a size 40, but I usually wear a 42 (US 8). I wound up moving the heel piece up a size on the template (farther from the the toe piece) to a 41. It just sat better on the heel piece than at the spot for a 40. At any rate, here were my observations:
- I measured the balance point with a carpenters square. It's marked accurately to the width of the square, about 1/16".
- To get good reference lines on the item I used the centering ruler in the post above and marked the lines on blue painters tape. Go slow. Turn on the light.
- The template worked well. Lined up with my center and balance lines.
- You always get some errors in marking holes but I feel that they were on the order of .5mm. I used a nail sharpened to a better conical point by spinning it in my drill and holding it against a file. I would definitely recommend clamping the ski flat for marking the holes.
Template.jpg
- Drilling is always a challenge even with a drill press. The bit, especially a thin one, always walks a little and my drill press has more runout than I'd like. I used a 9/64" bit which is very close to the 3.6 mm bit specified. To control depth I make a collar for the drill bit that left 9mm of the bit exposed.
Drilling.jpg
- The holes lined up nicely with the binding but I could see some offset that annoyed me but wasn't an issue. I would guess the holes and screws can tolerate any combination of 1mm of error in the hole locations. More than that and you could get some binding (on your binding!) One of my holes was a bit over 1 mm off but the others were all closer.
- Used a toothpick to generously line the holes with Titebond II.
- It was harder screwing in the screws than I thought it would be. I've worked a lot with poplar and it is more like pine than it is like oak. The screws had wide threads for bite and tended to get started a little crooked, like a tap. They straightened out and went in, though, as I said, it was harder than I expected.
- The job turned out looking quite nice.

Can't wait to try them out!
Bindings Mounted.jpg
Veni, Vidi, Viski



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paulzo
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Ski style: multi-day touring

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by paulzo » Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:37 pm

Nice! But the real question is, do you have the Mustang to go with that 289 emblem I see?



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fisheater
Posts: 2551
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Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
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Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by fisheater » Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:54 pm

@JohnSKepler I can’t wait to hear your review as well! I know how the ski responds in a turn in 75 mm both with and without a cable. I am very curious as to how the ski handles in a XP binding! I would imagine kick and glide performance should be quite satisfying, in a ski made to turn!



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JohnSKepler
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:31 pm
Location: Utahoming
Ski style: XCBCD
Favorite Skis: Voile Objective BC, Rossignol BC 80
Favorite boots: Scarpa F1 Bellows, Alpina Alaska XP
Occupation: Rocket Scientist

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by JohnSKepler » Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:56 pm

paulzo wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:37 pm
Nice! But the real question is, do you have the Mustang to go with that 289 emblem I see?
I did when I met and married the young lady in the photo next to the badge. 1966 with a vinyl top. Stripped it to the metal, replaced the vinyl top, replaced the interior, rebuilt the engine, rebuilt the C4 automatic, replaced the C4 with a 4 spd toploader, rebuilt that, brakes, rear end, electrical, etc… started me down the road that lets me do ski bindings! She was a great teacher, and so was the Mustang.
fisheater wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:54 pm
@JohnSKepler I can’t wait to hear your review as well! I know how the ski responds in a turn in 75 mm both with and without a cable. I am very curious as to how the ski handles in a XP binding! I would imagine kick and glide performance should be quite satisfying, in a ski made to turn!
We’re getting decent snow in the higher elevations here in Northern Utah. Might have enough higher up the canyon to give it a go this weekend! I don’t have any Swix Polar V05 yet. Any other recommendations?
Veni, Vidi, Viski



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fisheater
Posts: 2551
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by fisheater » Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:58 am

@JohnSKepler , I personally do not use any glide wax. I also am the wrong guy to discuss skins. I have owned a pair of 45 mm mohair Xskins for 5 years. I have skied those skins for a grand total of 50 yards. I took them off and figured out the best wax in tricky conditions. The overwhelming majority of guys like Xskins, so it must just be me.
Back to wax, I started with a Swix 3 pack of V-20 Green, V 40 Blue Extra, and V 60 Red Silver. You can cover most conditions with that simple 3 pack. I tend to use Rex Universal Tar -1 to -25C in cold powder snow. It works good for me, I don’t even need to know if temperature is green or blue. I have experimented with other tar waxes without success. I like klister in klister conditions, with the caveat that Start “Oslo” Racing Special Violet works pretty good in it’s range of 27 F - 36 F. I have had it stick at the lower end of it’s range. I will be ordering wax soon this year, and I will be ordering the colder Blue Oslo Wax.
When I started waxing, I did not approach it as some kind of mythical Chinese Arithmetic. I looked at it is something regular people have been doing for years. Wax has treated well. I was able to ski with wax from the start. I’m much better with wax now, and I have lots of room for improvement.
Waxing is like fishing only more cooperative. Some days I just can’t get the fish to go, I might not have top performance, but I can always ski with wax. Sometimes you can’t help but catch fish, the comparable to waxing is a blue wax day. I have a feeling you’re going to have a lot of blue wax days!

My wax supplier:
https://pioneermidwest.com/collections/kick-wax

It’s nice to buy local, but the wax selection at Pioneer Midwest is pretty extensive.



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snow-mark
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Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by snow-mark » Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:21 pm

Hey @JohnSKepler - you said the bindings recommended polyurethane glue. Did your Asnes skis also have the recommendation for polyurethane? My Ingstads have a sticker saying to only use polyurethane without a solvent. Interesting.



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JohnSKepler
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:31 pm
Location: Utahoming
Ski style: XCBCD
Favorite Skis: Voile Objective BC, Rossignol BC 80
Favorite boots: Scarpa F1 Bellows, Alpina Alaska XP
Occupation: Rocket Scientist

Re: Sealant/Glue for Bindings... and other mounting secrets.

Post by JohnSKepler » Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:07 am

snow-mark wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:21 pm
Hey @JohnSKepler - you said the bindings recommended polyurethane glue. Did your Asnes skis also have the recommendation for polyurethane? My Ingstads have a sticker saying to only use polyurethane without a solvent. Interesting.
Yep. Not only that, it said a one-part glue. I wound up using Titebond III and I probably used too much. The deep threads of these binding screws hold a lot of glue. I'll go lighter next time. But, it seems to be working fine.

I don't know what would limit the glue type so much. Perhaps the bonding agent they use to laminate their skis? I'm sure they types typically used run the gamut without problem. I bet the one-part requirement is to keep people from using a rapid-set that is generally of lower quality.

BindingFreedom sells a high-quality 24-hour epoxy with their inserts. If I ever wind up getting a wide ski with Meidjos I'll likely use inserts so I can move that expensive binding between skis.
Veni, Vidi, Viski



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