Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

[wabene]

The Alaska is super cool looking, considered warm and is very well liked by those that have them. The duckbill is thin and not great in the Voile 3 pins. It has a toe box that is too narrow for my foot. I've tried it out in the shop in a thin sock and this last weekend I tried my buddy's 46, which is my size, at a cabin we were at while wearing thick ski socks. It is not an option for me. My toes were crunched. That thin duckbill has failed for many. Regardless of whether it fails because of incompatibly with the Voile or not, it fails. My friend mentioned above is on his second pair after the duckbill cracked on his first. He skis the Rottefella ST.

Alpha has beautiful boots that are purported to have large toe boxes, but I've never tried them. They are very expensive when compared to boots with the same features. That little Norwegian flag on the boot must be woven with golden thread.

Ah Crispi. Nuff said... Ok fine I'll elaborate. My feet are thick. Ankles, heel and across the toes. I've never liked ice skating because it was painful and I'd last about 5 minutes before wanting to sit down. I could never find skates that were comfortable. I have the Crispi Svartsen 75mm and Nordland Hook BC and they are super comfortable for me. Plenty of room for toe wiggling. It is said the Svartsen is not as warm as the Alaska and I will say that is probably true. Thick socks (there is actually room for them) and a foil bottomed wool insole and that problem is solved. I only use that insole in sub-zero (f) conditions, most of the time using the Crispi insole. This boot has really easy forward flex for k & g, but the exoskeleton provides good ankle support if needed or can be left loose. It is much easier and faster to adjust this on trail than laces. It has a thick duckbill and a full rand that is sewn on, not just glued. After 2 seasons my boots look like new. The sole is molded not Norwegian stitched, but I've never heard of one failing.
I'm trying to get through this season without buying new skis or boots. Next year I will buy the Crispi Bre which is a Norwegian stitched boot which I want before they are not made anymore. I've heard good things about this boot.

I have an Alico Ski March in 11UK wide and it fits me perfectly. It is very stiff in the sole but doesn't have as much ankle support as the Svartsen. I'm still breaking it in at this point and use it with my Hoks just kicking around out back with the dogs. The boot is my heaviest and I plan on using it for riding the lifts a few times this year.

[CwmRaider]

I like Crispi boots. Have used the Crispi Stetind BC for several years and now the Crispi Bre 75mm. The Bre is very comfortable for touring, i would say more so than the Stetind was. Never got a blister with it. The Stetind is regarded as one of the most stable NNN-BC boots in Norway, but needed a whole season of breaking them in before I got a break from blisters.
I am a heavy skier however at over 110 kg effektive skiing weight and with both boots i would feel the sole twisting when edging the skis which for me is a limiting peformance factor. The cable doesnt help the Bre much with this in my own experience. The Fischer Transnordic 75 is much more rigid all around, benefits even more from the cable, and is still tourable but I would much prefer the Bre on multi day hut to hut tours. In hindsight, I cannot say for sure that the Crispi Bre is better DH performance than the Stetind was.
The Bre has duckbills of 16mm thick, and the Transnordic 75, 20mm thick. I don't know how the Bre compares to the Svartisen 75mm.

[snow-mark]

@GrimSurfer I think most would agree that NNN (all types) is worse when it comes to snow build up. It’s easy to remove snow from a 3pin, but NNN has the smaller spaces and crevices. So far I’ve had the most issues with snow building up in the groove behind the toe clip mechanism. As you say, nothing is perfect. I’m sticking with the NNNBC on my Ingstads, and converting my Glittertinds. That leaves two pairs with 3pin.

@Roelant @wabene Thanks. I may look to get some Crispi boots, probably Svartisen. The funny thing is, despite the topic of this thread, I may get the NNNBC version because I’m leaning toward giving up on 75mm. But I’m new NNNBC so I’ll ski them a while longer before deciding anything. Maybe I’ll see if a sale comes up end of year (remember when there were sales?).

Ok, off to ski….5-8 inches of fresh snow up on our favorite trails….

[CwmRaider]

The sole type and construction has a big impact on how boots perform. So the Svartisen BC and 75 are different in practice. The Alaska BC is, supposedly, quite a bit stiffer than the 75.

The NNN-BC boot with the stiffest sole is according to UTE magasinet: the Crispi Stetind, followed by Alaska BC and Svartisen BC. The upper part and lacing system offers best overall control for Crispi Svartisen, then Stetind and Alaska BC (the latter two are not compared directly so the order between them may be reverse).
A stiffer sole can be detrimental for XC touring as well, but I liked my Stetinds before they earned their retirement. I tried on Alaska BC only once and I did not like the way they felt on my feet, but it was about 6-7 years ago so I don't remember why exactly. In any case the Alaska BC has excellent reputation and value for money.
3 years ago I went from NNN-BC to 75mm.

A few highlights from my thoughts:

- I never felt that icing up was a reason to step away from the NNN-BC system.
- The ergonomics (user friendliness) of NNN-BC as a binding system are overall better than 75mm, IMO.
- I felt that I had reached the limits of the the stiffest NNN-BC boots in terms of torsional stiffness, and 75mm had several options I could explore.
- I find 75mm boots much more comfortable and better to walk with.
- The most comfortable touring boots I tried for any system are Crispi Bre 75mm.
- DH control may be comparable between NNN-BC and 75mm with boots of equivalent stiffness (e.g. Crispi Bre and Stetind).
- A cable on the 75mm system can significantly help to add pressure to the front of the ski in telemark turns, especially with burlier boots.
- The burliest 75mm touring boots overall on the market now are Scarpa T4 and many people have fit problems with them, me included.
- the burliest 75mm leather touring boots on the market now are Fischer Transnordic 75, and they fulfill all my needs for DH oriented XC boot. Some others do not like them mainly because of problems with painful flexing points of the internal structure.
- I tried the Alico Ski March 75mm (new from Ebay) and have had bad luck with them in terms of QC (severely twisted sole out of the box) and reliability (delamination after 1-2 uses).

[GrimSurfer]

I’m not thrilled by the lacing system on the Alaskas. Tough to keep the top of the foot tight because of the friction of cleats vs eyelets. I end up using a variation of a surgeon’s knot to “hold” whatever tightness I can get on the lower half of the boot.

I guess there’s a convenience to NNN BC. I am more won over by the fact that it does one job well enough (attaching the boot and ski) without affecting pivot at the expense of the sole. Also, I can change bumpers (if I want) easier or cheaper than I can change sole resistance.

When it comes to movement, I might compare it to a suspension system. A Mac strut is simple. It really has two moving elements. Because of this, it’s camber changes on compression… it’s impossible to eliminate. A lateral link suspension has upwards of five moving elements. It’s configuration reduces camber change to zero, which is something which is geometrically impossible with a Mac strut.

Obviously, what’s happening here is that movement is being controlled (rather than managed) by discrete elements… the bar, the bumper, and the sole versus the bar and the sole. Xplore just brings the pivot point inboard, which is of some mechanical and structural advantage.

[lilcliffy]

The Svartisen is another boot that is available in The States. Both boots are available from Fey Brothers in New Hampshire. I would study @lilcliffy review of that boot. My concern would be that the exoskeleton would inhibit comfortable kick and glide.

The exoskeleton does not inhibit kick and glide as long as it is loosened up in XC mode.
And- DO loosen them up whan in XC mode- if not→ OUCH.

One boot that would not be on my list is the Transnordic 75.

Unless the design of the Transnordic 75 is totally different than the BC- I personally could not use it as a Nordic touring boot- and as I already have the Svartisen- I sold the TNBC. Regardless- the Svartisen is more versatile than the TN- the endoskeleton of the TN can not be loosened up. The support of the Svartisen vs the Transnordic are near identical- with the Svartisen all tightened up.

[wabene]

I thought the Svartsen's exoskeleton would be a problem for k & g, but it has been the opposite. If a boot is comfortable for you the battle is won. With the easy forward flex even tightened up the lateral support of the ankle makes off track k & g on uneven terrain a pleasure. I would buy this boot again.

[lilcliffy]

and I do not believe Xplore can outperform 75 mm downhill. At least not currently I don’t believe Alfa Free and Xplore outperforms 75 mm and a cable.

Hmmm- I am thinking this is perhaps too much of an absolute statement-
(and perhaps provokes a similar decades-old heated debate over NNNBC vs NN... )
(I will consider contributing to this in the Xplore vs 3PC thread...http://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.p ... d0eccb7473)

Regardless- 75mm clearly offers the widest range of boot options- including modern rigid, high-cuff plastic boots.
Comparing 75mm universally to Xplore (or NNNBC) is very complicated- and complex...

[GrimSurfer]

I’m on NNN BC and have been for some time. I’m totally open to the idea that Xplore is a better performing binding than the NNN BC.

All of the same design features that support this thesis are applicable to the XPlore-NN debate. Every. Single. One.

Human politics gets in the way of objectivity all the time. Why should skiing be different?

The only thing complex about it is navigating a bunch of ego BS. No offence to anyone, but that’s really what’s going on in most binding debates.

[lilcliffy]

I think most would agree that NNN (all types) is worse when it comes to snow build up. It’s easy to remove snow from a 3pin, but NNN has the smaller spaces and crevices. So far I’ve had the most issues with snow building up in the groove behind the toe clip mechanism.

My personal experience is a few moderately forceful scrape-stomps of the boot against the rails takes care of this- YMMV.