Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I've been using a Marmot CWM -40 bag. I'm really happy with it and I've taken it down to -30c and was very comfortable. Paired it with a exped downmat and a foam mat. Helsport has some bags that are a mix of goose down and synthetic which I'm curious about.

Consider combining it with Exped DownMat XP 9 with Pump. I'm familiar with the built in pump version and it's good. It's a bit narrow, however, I'm a bit narrow too.

I'm also familiar with the DownMat 7 and it's much more difficult to hand pump with the built in pump, perhaps because since it's not as thick, the pump's reservoir is smaller??? maybe it's faulty???

I am am an oldtimer and what I have to add is probably not of any value, but reading this thread reminded me of a time probably 35 or 40 years ago when I was skiing solo on the Ressurection Pass trail in Alaska. Left the trailhead in moderate +15 to 20degree f,and intended to 'poach" one of the forest service cabins for the night. When I arrived at the cabin, it was occupied by some snowmachiners. I had brought a tent along and hurriedly made camp as night was falling, sky was clearing and temps were dropping. Fired up the whisperlite, had some supper and heated water to fill my 2 nalgene bottles to place in my sleeping bag for additional warmth. Temperatures kept dropping through the night, but I was warm in my North Face Tangerine Dream.
Woke up in the middle of the night, still warm, but wet.
I had not tightened the lids on the bottles completely and they slowly leaked, wetting much of my bag. Point of the story, that old fiberfill, polarguard or whatever bag kept me warm. I don't think any of my down bags would have done as well.

voilenerd wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:40 am

My old down bag has too many holes and needs replaced and is frankly too heavy and bulky

How heavy is too heavy, and why is that a bad thing? If your bag works for you down to X degrees and has 1000g of down fill, and an outdoor company advertises a bag rating of X degrees with only 600g of down fill, you will find the lighter bag cold and disappointing. Something that I wished I had learned sooner was to compare sleeping bags based on fill weight instead of claimed temperature rating (usually a lie). This works for down and synthetic of similar qualities (I guess cheap bags made out of duck feathers probably aren't comparable to goose down). Down sleeping bags don't really go bad unless they get moldy, you have been storing them compressed, or the internal baffles have torn. That's why Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends sleeping bags keep their resale value. Which once you see how high that is, is another very compelling reason to just fix the holes in your old bag and keep using it.

I’m sure Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends bags are top of the line, with a price to match.
If price is of no concern, or the application requires the best, those would be good choices.
I use the Marmot Col sleeping bag, which is rated to -20F.
Retail, they are quite a bit less, and I’m happy with the performance.
It seems like it’s fairly easy to find this bag on sale in the $500 to $600 range, such as this:

I have the older, side zip version of the bag — they came out with a new top zip version of the bag I’m not familiar with.

Temperature ratings are worth looking into. For example:
https://www.switchbacktravel.com/sleepi ... re-ratings

If I don’t start warm, it’s hard for me to get warm once i get in the bag; I sleep cold, and am wearing extra layers in my -20F bag if it’s below maybe -5F.

@Stephen are you utilizing a bivy or a tent? I would think a quality bivy would make a world of difference. However I don’t know if all that would work in my 45 liter “big pack”. I’m still kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on an MSR 4 season on close out for under $200, but that was pre covid

voilenerd wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:40 am

Any recommendations on what sleeping bag to buy for winter camping? My old down bag has too many holes and needs replaced and is frankly too heavy and bulky. I’m in Wyoming so our winters can be brutal.

tkarhu wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:18 pm

I have one down 3-season sleeping bag of about 1 kg, one synthetic similar bag of similar weight, and one ultra light quilt, ...

My idea has been to use the synthetic G-180 bag on top of the down bag. ... The idea of a synthetic bag on top of a down bag is to improve moisture handling. And the idea of layering sleeping bags is to improve multi-functionality. Of course a top bag needs to be over-sized, so one might not be that warm, when you use a top bag on its own.

Stephen wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 22, 2023 2:58 pm

If I don’t start warm, it’s hard for me to get warm once i get in the bag; I sleep cold, and am wearing extra layers in my -20F bag if it’s below maybe -5F.

You use a layer system during the day.
You can use a layer system during the night.

You can even use "summer" bags to add up to the loft of a "deep winter" bag.

People add layers on the go when temps drop, and temps usually drop thru the night.

Usually synth bags are heavier and less compressible, so putting it over a down bag kills the down's loft more than vice versa.

You do NOT need to oversize the outer bag if you use it as a quilt. Leave the toe box zipped and once in your main bag, hook your feet in the over bag and pull over like a quilt. This also let's you toss-and-turn under the "dome" of the "quilt bag" without it pulling off or exposing a cold air or zipper gap. Knock all the snow off your boots, bag them, and put between bags to avoid ice-block-boots in the morning.

An un-fitted fleece bed sheet is a versatile "base layer." Drape as a single layer. Fold in half to double up, or thirds to triple, double halved for quadruple and drape it OVER you inside your bag (remember, heat rises, trap it). In 4x thick, it can also be used under you or between your bag and pad for better insulation from the ground. Lay flat in bag, then wrap each side over the top for a 2x thickness above you.

The fleece sheet can also be folded, caped, wrapped in various ways for added warmth on the go or in camp. Double halved (4 thick) lengthwise, fold lengthwise like a V, roll each leg of the V around a leg ala chaps and put your hard shell over it. Fold in half lengthwise then hang behind neck like a hood, wrap each leg around torso one side at a time, then hardshell over it, drop or raise "hood" as needed. Folded 4x, 8x, 16x, it makes a nice sit pad inside the tent that can't deflate, won't melt the snow under the tent floor, doesn't make any potato chip bag sounds.

A fleece sheet can be "bed rolled" under the brain of your pack. Two "summer" bags yield more packing options than one big bag -- one in the pack and other slung below, one in bottom of pack and one atop for quick access, one rolled up inside the other as one "big" roll.

EDIT: Food & drink! Bags trap heat, they don't generate it. Eat "well" before bed so your body is "burning" fuel to keep warm through the night. Some sugars, carbs, proteins and fats. Warm up any creek (32-40F) water, and ideally have a thermos of tea, cider, or cocoa so you can taking up warmth, hydration, and calories quickly. (Answer "nature", well that's a different thread...)

fisheater wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:46 pm

@Stephen are you utilizing a bivy or a tent? I would think a quality bivy would make a world of difference.

It doesn’t matter.
If I’m moving, I’m good.
Stop moving and cold in 15 minutes.
I can be cold at 70*.
My feet are always cold.
It’s been this way since my 20s.
I should have ended up not a skier, but a warm-water surfer.
Mexico was great for that!

@TallGrass I've never heard of a synthetic bag being heavier than down. Although I am mostly comparing 20-30f bags to 0f down bags.

One used to find us army surplus multi bag layering systems very frequently. At least 10-15 years ago.

@Stephen you sound similar, but not identical, to me. I am cold when stationary. I heat up A LOT when active, after a suitable amount of warm-up time. However I can retain that heat for a bit once ceasing activity, but if I wait too long it's no bueno. Dealing with extended breaks with such a profile is a pain.