Lundhags Boot Care
- randoskier
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
@lilcliffy
Lundhags just wrote me- I had asked them about their leather in the Abisku and I also asked why their office listed on the e-form was in Lillehammer Norway not Sweden, asked them if their "little brothers" had kidnaped them and taken them there, mentioned it would be hell for them during the Nordic World Cup in March/April! This is what they wrote back:
Hi,
We use split leather in the Abisku Ski boot. You can still use Leather Wax (or Leather Grease) on them - the surface will just get shinier and darker, so if you want to keep the look as it is, you can spray-impregnate them. Just as you are saying, wax is better for the leather in the long run - but using only spray a year or two is definitely not going to destroy the leather.
We are still based in Sweden but the company that Lundhags is a part of (Brav [formerly called The Swix Group]) is based in Norway. I hope to be in Trondheim cheering the Swedish team on for the World Cup!
Vänlig hälsning / Best regards,
LUNDHAGS
Atlantvägen1
837 31 Järpen, Sweden
So Musk Ox and Gareth win the Prize (to be named later).
Lundhags just wrote me- I had asked them about their leather in the Abisku and I also asked why their office listed on the e-form was in Lillehammer Norway not Sweden, asked them if their "little brothers" had kidnaped them and taken them there, mentioned it would be hell for them during the Nordic World Cup in March/April! This is what they wrote back:
Hi,
We use split leather in the Abisku Ski boot. You can still use Leather Wax (or Leather Grease) on them - the surface will just get shinier and darker, so if you want to keep the look as it is, you can spray-impregnate them. Just as you are saying, wax is better for the leather in the long run - but using only spray a year or two is definitely not going to destroy the leather.
We are still based in Sweden but the company that Lundhags is a part of (Brav [formerly called The Swix Group]) is based in Norway. I hope to be in Trondheim cheering the Swedish team on for the World Cup!
Vänlig hälsning / Best regards,
LUNDHAGS
Atlantvägen1
837 31 Järpen, Sweden
So Musk Ox and Gareth win the Prize (to be named later).
- randoskier
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
John Toko wax and grease is probably the same thing, maybe even the same product- Brav (Swix) owns both Toko and Lundhags. Toko is more widely available in the states.JohnSKepler wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:50 amI need to condition my Lundhag's Abisku boots. They are full grain leather and either Nubuck or suede. Lundhags recommends either of these:
Leather Grease:
I thought I'd go with the wax to maintain the stiffness of the boots but I'll have to order from Europe. Can anyone recommend a more readily accessible product with the same or similar ingredients? If I can't find anything I'll go long-distance, but thought I'd check first.
https://www.toko.ch/en/wash-care/care-l ... r-waxbalm/
- JohnSKepler
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
randoskier wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 5:59 am@lilcliffy
Lundhags just wrote me- I had asked them about their leather in the Abisku and I also asked why their office listed on the e-form was in Lillehammer Norway not Sweden, asked them if their "little brothers" had kidnaped them and taken them there, mentioned it would be hell for them during the Nordic World Cup in March/April! This is what they wrote back:
Hi,
We use split leather in the Abisku Ski boot. You can still use Leather Wax (or Leather Grease) on them - the surface will just get shinier and darker, so if you want to keep the look as it is, you can spray-impregnate them. Just as you are saying, wax is better for the leather in the long run - but using only spray a year or two is definitely not going to destroy the leather.
We are still based in Sweden but the company that Lundhags is a part of (Brav [formerly called The Swix Group]) is based in Norway. I hope to be in Trondheim cheering the Swedish team on for the World Cup!
Vänlig hälsning / Best regards,
LUNDHAGS
Atlantvägen1
837 31 Järpen, Sweden
So Musk Ox and Gareth win the Prize (to be named later).
So what's what with these boots? If the rough part is split leather is the lower, smooth part of the upper just rubber?
Veni, Vidi, Viski
- dvärgbjörk
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
JohnSKepler wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:51 pmSo what's what with these boots? If the rough part is split leather is the lower, smooth part of the upper just rubber?
LundhagsAbisku.jpg
Yes, it is rubber. It does not need any treatment.
- randoskier
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
"Main MaterialJohnSKepler wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:51 pmrandoskier wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 5:59 am
LUNDHAGS
Atlantvägen1
837 31 Järpen, Sweden
So Musk Ox and Gareth win the Prize (to be named later).
So what's what with these boots? If the rough part is split leather is the lower, smooth part of the upper just rubber?
LundhagsAbisku.jpg
Certech 4.5 cellular rubber base" -Lundhags
- Musk Ox
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
I use a sort of rubber silicon conditioner on the rubber bits of my Lundhags hiking boots... to clarify, I have no idea if it actually does anything.dvärgbjörk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:14 pmJohnSKepler wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:51 pmSo what's what with these boots? If the rough part is split leather is the lower, smooth part of the upper just rubber?
LundhagsAbisku.jpg
Yes, it is rubber. It does not need any treatment.
Last edited by Musk Ox on Sun Dec 15, 2024 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- randoskier
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
Yeasty rubber! I would just use soapy water to clean them. Cool that they use yeast to make the bubbles in the rubber. Certech is from here in Italy, they have good rubber technology in Italy- Vibram is from here too.Musk Ox wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 2:38 pmI use a sort of rubber silicon conditioner on my hiking boots... to clarify, I have no idea if it actually does anything.dvärgbjörk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:14 pmJohnSKepler wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:51 pmSo what's what with these boots? If the rough part is split leather is the lower, smooth part of the upper just rubber?
LundhagsAbisku.jpg
Yes, it is rubber. It does not need any treatment.
"What is CERTECH ®?
Cellular Rubber Technology is the manufacturing technology behind Lundhags cellular rubber bottom. Cellular rubber is a yeast rubber with numerous micro air bubbles that provide a light and flexible waterproof material. To describe the differences in rubber, each version is numbered 2.0–5.0, with the highest number representing a more stable and insulating design. The same construction is available in both Regular and Opti lasts. The Ws versions have slightly softer soles and thinner insulation for a more customized flex."
Re: Lundhags Boot Care
Leather
The hide is taken from the animal and the hair/fur is removed and the skin is tanned to prevent it from rotting. It is dyed if a different colour is desired and otherwise chemically treated/finished to achieve greater function beyond its natural characteristics of strength, flexibility, breathability, and water resistance.
The hide fibres are most densely packed at the skin surface, the smooth side, and are less dense towards the inside flesh. The hide is normally too thick for many uses so it is split into layers.
The outmost layer of the hide is the “top grain” and has the most dense structure and is naturally the most water resistant and durable. Because any hide only has one top grain layer, it is considered the highest quality and is the most expensive.
If the leather uses most of the thickness of the hide and includes the top grain, it can be referred to as “full grain” leather and is spec’d according to thickness, for example “2.0mm Full grain Salpa(proprietary treatment) leather”. This is the kind of leather used in the classic Norwegian welted telemark boots.
Usually, the outermost skin is used “smooth side out”, having the almost membrane like, dense-ist part of the leather on the outside of the boot (again like classic tele boots) providing the most structurally water resistant part of the leather protecting the wearer. The downside to this is that this super-tight, less-porous smooth-skin-side-out is that it is prone to abrasion and scratch damage.
The inner split grain layers are made up of a less dense matrix and while more breathable, they are less durable and water resistant. This is “suede” and has a fuzzy appearance and feel. Because they are lower quality and often more than one split grain layer can come from the hide, this is the cheapest leather. Split grain leathers are thinner, like 0.9-1.5mm. Sometimes these cheapest and most porous leathers are PU (polyurethane) coated to give a smooth-out appearance and help waterproof the leather, but of course it reduces breathability and will wear off.
Full grain/top grain can also be used “rough side out” which might look like suede(a split grain) but because it includes that very dense top grain, but turned towards the inside, abrasion and scratches have a harder time getting deeper into the leather. While the outer surface of these boots are a little fuzzy and don’t repel water as readily, water doesn’t penetrate as quickly because the leather fibres are denser to the inside.
“Nubuck” (as I understood it) is a high quality top grain leather that is brushed to give it a little soft “nap” or fuzz for aesthetic purposes, while opening up the breathability slightly and adding surface area to hold a touch more repellancy chemicals. The brushing can also even-out blemishes in the leather that otherwise would be rejected for full grain/top grain applications.
Treatment
The original factory treatments are petro-chemicals, silicones, and synthetic waxes. The finish achieved in the manufacture of the leather is typically the best it can be for its intended use. Applying aftermarket treatments is sort of like trying to improve/replace the factory paint job on your car with a can of spray paint. However, even the new finish on leather boots do wear out, getting abraded, drying out, getting dirty and contaminated.
Silicone sprays make the least impact on the look and feel of the leather (but can still darken and de-fuzz the finish). The water and dirt repellant chemicals are carried by solvents that evaporate quickly, but also prevent the active ingredients form absorbing very deeply into the leather. Spray treatments have to be re-applied most often.
Synthetic “waxes” (eg. Nikwax, Zamberlan's Hydrobloc Cream, or Biwell Green mit Silicon) try to create both a chemical and physical barrier to dirt and moisture. Their very nature (thick at room temperature and colder, and chemically non-polar(H2O doesn't bond)) however, tends to prevent them from being absorbed very deeply into the leather as well - the positive is that breathability is not hindered completely. Some will suggest warming the boots first then working and melting the wax into the leather to maximize absorption and then letting the treatment cool and congeal. A final buff gives a nice shine and DWR type repellency.
Generally, for modern performance footwear, any grease or oil based treatments(Dubbin, Mink oil) are discouraged. While we know that oil and water don’t mix - that’s good -, the other properties of oils and grease weaken the structure of the leather: The oils do absorb more deeply but they can clog the porosity and breathability of the structure and excessively degrade and lubricate the leather fibres such that they can tear apart and rot. Living skin is continuously nourished by body oils when a creature is alive and new skin cells are regenerated as the old ones slough off - of course, not so with our leather boots. Oils and grease significantly darken and smoothen leather.
Oils and grease based treatments can be helpful to soften or break-in really thick, inflexible leathers and to help rejuvenate very dried out leathers.
Snow Seal is beeswax based and BiWell Red (supposedly, has the natural oil lanolin, from sheep’s wool) are somewhere in-between sythetic waxes and greases.
One note about breathability (water-vapour permeability) that a rep pointed out is that it is minimal through the boot materials, unless the footwear uses fabric mesh panels(ie. no waterproofness). Most of the moisture that doesn't get stuck in your socks or the boot lining, is really only vented out by the "chimney effect" of warm vapor blowing out the top opening of the boot..
- randoskier
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Re: Lundhags Boot Care
Not everyone agrees with you about Suede and split leather, especially my neighbors at the Perwanger tannery. This is a good rundown by a major boot maker who answered an inquiry-Lo-Fi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 5:15 pmIMG_1618.jpg
I worked for years at a big outdoor shop and this is some of the story that I gathered from the stores’ buyers and product reps:
The inner split grain layers are made up of a less dense matrix and while more breathable, they are less durable and water resistant. This is “suede” and has a fuzzy appearance and feel. Because they are lower quality and often more than one split grain layer can come from the hide, this is the cheapest leather. Split grain leathers are thinner, like 0.9-1.5mm. Sometimes these cheapest and most porous leathers are PU (polyurethane) coated to give a smooth-out appearance and help waterproof the leather, but of course it reduces breathability and will wear off.
The Perwanger tannery specializes exclusively in split leather, but without a doubt, it’s the best and most robust split leather available. This excellence is due to the origin of the hides, which come from cows grazing in the Alps. These cows develop exceptionally strong and thick hides, which are then split into two parts. The top-grain layer is typically used by the (mostly German) automotive industry for leather seats, while the "backside" is utilized by Perwanger to produce high-quality leather for durable boots.
The cell structure of these hides is so dense that, from a distance, it closely resembles full-grain or nubuck leather. The main qualities of this leather are:
- Extremely resistant to wear and tear
- Very good water-resistance and breahability.
- It is also lighter than nobuk or full-grain leather at a comparable thickness.
Perwanger leather is primarily used for premium alpine boots, but we also incorporate it into our trekking boot designs.
The Perwanger suede leather thickness varies depending on the model and intended use, generally ranging between 3.0 mm and 2.2 mm. For our Fast Forward boots, the leather is slightly thinner, around 1.8 mm, as these boots are designed to be extremely lightweight.
You can find more detailed information here: Perwanger Leather on Bestard Footwear.