3 Pin vs. Rotte Xplore

[telerat]

I have no experience with NNN-BC, but have skied 75mm, both 3-pin and cable versions, for over three decades, regular NNN for a couple of decades, and NTN and Xplore since release. I also tried Rottefella 3-pin with cable before switching to Xplore. I currently ski Alfa Skaget and Free with and old pair of Fischer E109, Åsnes Ousland and Falketind 62 XP, as well as on Nordic/touring skates, and will match as appropriate depending on conditions.

Advantages of Xplore compared to 75mm are no play in the boot/binding interface, almost complete absence of noise, quick and easy step in and out, better kick and glide performance, and boots that are nicer for walking due to the lack of a duckbill, albeit with a rather stiff sole. Main drawbacks are price of the binding and boots being slightly or quite a bit more expensive than NNN-BC. It is also a relatively new system, so long term durability can still not be reliably compared to NNN-BC or 75mm.

The boot is as others have said, the most important for support, as well as warmth, comfort and absence of blisters. Preferences, terrain, conditions, skill, and possibly cost, should determine what system suits each skier. Switching to Xplore from NNN-BC makes most sense with wider ski like Falketind 62 on firmer conditions, but if you are looking for a new boot the selection might also contribute.

The hard flexes that I have for Xplore transforms the downhill performance. They are totally different from the regular flex and almost completely rigid like a plastic piece, and rely on bending of the rather stiff Xplore sole for flex. I think the performance best can be compared to a soft cable binding, and I find it unsuitable for any flat or uphill skiing, except for the shortest of distances.

Xplore has a quick release button for the flex, that is unfortunately a bit too hard to access, making switching harder than necessary. I can change flexes with gloves, but will imagine some having issues with it. That and making the binding release smaller than necessary are poor design decisions. The tip of a ski pole, or any object with a pointy tip or corner should work for flex release though. Since switching requires removing the boot from the binding, I will only do it before prolonged descents, usually combined with tightening laces and shortening poles.

The regular flex is soft, but works well for both kick and glide skiing, as well as Nordic/touring skating. I keep wondering if a stiffer version of it would be nice for mixed uphill and downhill skiing. The free pivot plate works well for prolonged ascents with skins.

[Tom M]

I put this video together in December 2022 and I'm now on my 4th season skiing the Xplore system. I'm satisfied with the durability and reliability of the system, so I don't think that should be a consideration for people buying the newest generation of the binding and boots. Julie is satisfied with NNNBC for her off trail skiing and I wasn't able to get her to change over when she had to replace her last set of boots, but for her it was more about boot fit than it was downhill performance. I still have one ski mounted with a simple 3 pin binding that I ski with a plastic boot, but when it comes to soft boots, I prefer the Xplore system over 75 mm or NNNBC.
 


Also check out this old video. I remounted my Voile Objective skis that I had been skiing with 75 mm with the Xplore binding. This was before the hard flexor was available. I've done a lot of XCD skiing with this combo over the past few seasons, and I predict that this combo will be a keeper for me for life.

[lilcliffy]

have you tried nnnbc with the hard flexor? It makes a huge difference as well, although I find it relatively difficult, especially in gloves in a cold breeze, to swap out. I imagine xplore flexors were designed to be easier in this regard but don't know.

Re switching NNNBC flexors on a tour- I carry a phillips/posidrive screwdriver with me (for lots of uses) (BD binding buddy)- ironically, I can probably switch out a NNNBC flexor as fast as Xplore- if I take the ski off (which one needs to do with XP anyway...)

Regardless- yes, XP flexor easier to switch out. I havent yet experienced the XP flexor being good and frozen in place...

One used to be able to get an even denser, more resistant white NNNBC flexor- would like to get some...

[lilcliffy]

On the subjext of XP flexors-

I would like a medium flexor- in between the standard soft, and current hard flexor.

With a medium flexor in the mix- I also would like a purely downhill-focused flexor- that has similar density as the current hard flexor but has a more tight flexor-boot profile, so that the resistance in the flexor engages almost as soon as the heel is lifted off the ski.

The free-pivot plate is wonderful for any serious extended climbs with skins-
The standard soft flexor offers jsut enough resistance to facilitate pressure the ski- making it obviously better for K&G, but also for climbing on grip wax and/or scales.

As far as downhill skiing-
I find when my technique is solid, or rather my balance and form are effective- I really don't need the hard flexor-
For example, in a Telemark turn, if my lead knee is effectively bent and my lead knee is over my lead foot; my rear foot-leg is effectively bent-flexed, tucked under my butt, and HEAVILY weighted- I have no issue pressuring the rear/inside ski-
As John XCD (I think it was John) spoke to recently in one of the technique threads- heavily weighting the inside/uphill/rear foot is critical when making a Telemark turn with a completely free-heel boot-binding-
As John mentioned- I too get better results by slightly sliding the inside foot back- or smearing both feet into the Tele stance- as opposed to moving the outside/front foot forward- which inevitably leads to weighting the front foot- especially with a completely free heel.

In short- I don't have trouble flexing a completely free heel (be it NN/NNNBC/XP)- even with a stiff sole- as long as my inside foot is tucked in and and heavily weighted- and NOT trailing behind!

I use many other turning techniques where I am deliberately wieghting the outside/downhill ski.

All that being said-
the XP/NNNBC hard flexors are a huge technical assist when downhilling skiing terrain/snow that is very challenging.
I don't use them very much in my local backcountry skiing because downhill-focused tours are really only safe when the snow conditions are ideal (due to dense forest cover), therefore, I find I don't really need the hard flexor in ideal snow conditions.

If I was touring in steep above-treeline conditions- I would likely use the hard flexor a lot more!

Another note- I have been pushing myself to use the XP heel-lifters on extended steep climbs- they are great!!!!!

[lilcliffy]

The boot is as others have said, the most important for support, as well as warmth, comfort and absence of blisters. Preferences, terrain, conditions, skill, and possibly cost, should determine what system suits each skier. Switching to Xplore from NNN-BC makes most sense with wider ski like Falketind 62 on firmer conditions, but if you are looking for a new boot the selection might also contribute.

Yes- and I think the extra cost of XP is probably not worth it for XC-focused touring on long stiff, cambered, directional skis. XP is certainly fantastic on these skis, but probably not worth the extra cost if that is the focus.
(A weird thought just to came to mind of an NNNBC-XP hybrid outsole- allowing for a boot that you could use on XC-focused skis with NNNBC and then use the same boot on XP for Nordic touring skis tuned for steep terrain...)

The hard flexes that I have for Xplore transforms the downhill performance. They are totally different from the regular flex and almost completely rigid like a plastic piece, and rely on bending of the rather stiff Xplore sole for flex. I think the performance best can be compared to a soft cable binding, and I find it unsuitable for any flat or uphill skiing, except for the shortest of distances.

AGREE!

The regular flex is soft, but works well for both kick and glide skiing, as well as Nordic/touring skating. I keep wondering if a stiffer version of it would be nice for mixed uphill and downhill skiing. The free pivot plate works well for prolonged ascents with skins.

Yes- I would like a medium XP flexor .

[DG99]

It sounds like the Xplore system gives much better torsional rigidity than 75 mm without cable, given the current crop of “leather” 75 mm boots with their fairly thin rubber soles. Yes?

The old Norwegian welt leather boots used to work better for torsional rigidity. More recently I’ve tried the Fischer BCX 75 mm, same sole as eg the Alpina Alaska. Vibram all rubber. These were noodles pretty much, not so much torsional rigidity and they wiggle side to side etc. in the 3 pin binding. A cable add on might help I suppose, but hurt kick and glide. Anyways the upshot is precise turning and especially control just touring along on BC trails is compromised where the snow is hard refrozen and uneven or etc. I haven’t ever tried NNN BC or Xplore!

Certainly there is a lot to be said also about the comparative support in the uppers of various boots.

[telerat]

With a medium flexor in the mix- I also would like a purely downhill-focused flexor- that has similar density as the current hard flexor but has a more tight flexor-boot profile, so that the resistance in the flexor engages almost as soon as the heel is lifted off the ski.

I would like the Xplore hard flex to be tight fitting, but I think it would inhibit step in, thus the current version with the small gap between the flex and sole tip.

I have for some time wanted an Xplore binding switchable between free pivot touring mode and downhill hard flex/stopper mode. It would eliminate the need to carry and possibly loose different flexors, as well as being able to switch modes without exiting the binding. Step in could then work in touring mode, while descent mode could be without any gap before engaging the boot sole flex. It would lack flex mode for kick and glide, while surely being heavier, more complex and expensive than the current binding.


@DG99 I think the Xplore sole is inherently more rigid than the molded 75 mm soles, but it is only part of the boot and torsional rigidity depends on the whole boot construction. Xplore do eliminate the play/wiggle usually found in 3-pin bindings, but you can try tightening the bale an extra notch to see if it helps on rubber soles. I liked cable binding for eliminating sideways play, but found it less suitable for striding and kick and glide. Cable attachment/ pivot point was also a compromise between walking comfort and downhill performance. Switching between touring and downhill by tightening the wire was slow with my Rottefella 412 binding, so I went back to 3-pin when getting a new pair of skis. I eventually tried the Rottefella's 75mm with Cable binding before switching to Xplore. I found it needed a boot with a somewhat stiffer sole and shaft than my old Asolo Morgedal to be a good match, but it still it firmed up the descents nicely.

[The GCW]

Thanks, Jlars13 for mentioning of Hard Flexors & “Throwing alpine turns on xplore is shockingly secure”
After reading that, I took the Åsnes 62 Falketind Xplore skis to the Center of the Universe a few days ago, this time using the Xplore binding and hard flexors and felt more in control and able to throw the skis into alpine turns when going too fast (feeling out of control) to scrub speed & get the skis agains the fall line.

That was with the Alfa Free boots. I’ve also taken Falketind’s with regular flexor & also with Alfa Vista boots and regular flexor, plus Nansen and Gamme’s using NNNBC bindings with MADSHUS GLITTERTIND boots.

For inbounds, lift served groomed wide Green and Blue runs, Falketind skis, Free boots with hard flexor is the best setup I have. I’m feeling comfortable in that environment when I used to be terrified. Been to lift served slopes about 10 times now.

I notice the flex point of the Free boot is further forward than the other boots I have but it hasn’t been a problem.

[mca80]

One used to be able to get an even denser, more resistant white NNNBC flexor- would like to get some...

If you ever come across any for sale could you kindly let us know (after getting some for yourself first of course)?

P.S. not sure if I read this idea here or dreamt it up, but what about filling the inside of the nnnbc flexor with epoxy or something to basically make it ultra-stiff?

[voilenerd]

I got some great turns on my Fischer 98s with Xplore system. It’s a completely different feeling to me. The system rewards driving and pressuring the front foot while pressuring the uphill ski. Pressuring the uphill ski I found that I have to apply more pressure to my toes than the ball of my foot. If you are new tele skier the Xplore system may be difficult to learn to turn vs 75mm/NTN and plastic boots.

The stiff Xplore sole makes a huge difference over 75mm and the activity is immediate. I did however find the limits of my Sbound 98 rather quickly when I tried to turn in deeper snow. My tips sank and felt like I was gonna faceplant. I’d like to try wider skis to see what the limits would be but the Xplore boots don’t have plastic boot yet available. I’m not sure I’d want to run anything wider then the Annums or Fischer 112s with the Xplore until beefier boots are made. Yeah I could try Voile Endeavors like some people have but I’d rather have the Endeavors mounted with TTS .